HD Separation Mastering.... anyone heard of it?

[sadboy]

hi guys,
I've read this interesting article about HD separation mastering, in the beginning i was shocked when i read the process of this mastering style, but later on i felt like it really makes a sense to go ahead and give it a try with this mastering type.....
Here is the Articles Link:Separation Mastering - The Most Flexible Audio Mastering Format

if anyone tried this stuff or know it please let me know what were your results about it..


best regards...
SaDbOy

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by sadboy

hi guys,
I've read this interesting article about HD separation mastering, in the beginning i was shocked when i read the process of this mastering style, but later on i felt like it really makes a sense to go ahead and give it a try with this mastering type.....
Here is the Articles Link:Separation Mastering - The Most Flexible Audio Mastering Format

if anyone tried this stuff or know it please let me know what were your results about it..


best regards...
SaDbOy

It's called mastering from stems. Neither new, nor revolutionary. Can be useful if a mix has specific problems, isn't usually beneficial if you're happy with it. There's no inherent magical advantage in processing things separately, it's just that the ME can possibly fix specific problems (if they exist) more effectively.

There are other practical considerations to stems, maybe do a search here on GS. Personally, I'd advise to initially supply the Mastering Engineer of your choice with the stereo mixes and let him know that, if he/she finds them to have any specific problems, you welcome feedback for a mix change and/or can supply stems.

[Cellotron]

This has existed for a while and is known to every engineer except the author of the article you linked to as working from "stems." John Vestman came up with a new name for it in what seems to me to be just a way to market his own studio as being unique in using them - but nearly all ME's (including myself) can work from stems if needed.

The vast majority of mastering engineers (including myself) generally resort to working from stems only in order to address specific problems in the mix that for some reason can not be addressed by the mixer in a timely or sonically desirable manner. If the mix sounds good and the way the mixer intended then I'd say your just as well off simply providing stereo mixes to the mastering engineer.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[devinkerr]

Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering

It's called mastering from stems. Neither new, nor revolutionary. Can be useful if a mix has problems, isn't beneficial if you're happy with it. There's no inherent magical advantage in processing things separately, it's just that the ME can possibly fix specific problems (if they exist) more effectively.

There are other practical considerations to stems, maybe do a search here on GS.

Yep, agree on all counts—most people call it stems mastering.

I personally work in stems a lot. It can definitely be a good way to drastically improve a mix if the budget is tight. Also, it gives me some mental freedom to only be dealing with 8 or so tracks with all the effects already printed, instead of trying to jump in someone's 100+ track session with lots of plugins.

[sadboy]

aha so the dude from the article is just showing off his studio muscles saying that he's came up with a new mastering way...

thanks for making it clear guys, and excuse me if the thread was kinda stupid, it's just that I've been working on sound engineering since 1999 but only in 2007 I've put my foot into the mastering field, so basically I'm still learning...

[TRJanuary]

my favorite part:

(Note: if you've used stereo buss compression, each separation will be less compressed than the full stereo mix. When recombined in mastering, this compression will be restored.)

[TRJanuary]

more fun from this website

here is the "white paper" (it's printed on white paper after all)
explanation of why his $1500 power cable is the bomb.

http://www.johnvestman.com/VDCableNo...evised2007.pdf

Best parts are where he's talking about recording a tone at "0 KHz", and the use of an M Audio usb interface

[MASSIVE Master]

I'm so damn tired of stems... Vestman can have them.

[jackthebear]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

I'm so damn tired of stems... Vestman can have them.

Here here.....

[sadboy]

LOOOOOOOOOOL i really feel poor for Vestman, you guys are eating him alive with your posts.

[sadboy]

OK guys put what i don't understand in here is when we are doing the stems mastering thing, shall we keep the fully-mixed track unmuted along with the other separated tracks like drums, vocal and etc...

because if so, i think am gonna Have a big problem with phasing, or am gonna get that flangy sound...

any 2cents ???

[jackthebear]

Are all the stems equal in length?

Ideally you want all the stems to start from 0 rather than place individual sections all over the place......this can be very time consuming and frustrating.

Does this help at all?

[jackthebear]

Originally Posted by sadboy

LOOOOOOOOOOL i really feel poor for Vestman, you guys are eating him alive with your posts.

If nothing else Vestman has achieved something in that he somehow still lives in the collective consciousness of the mastering fraternity.......that's more than I can lay claim to......

And as John Gotti once said "There's one thing worse than being talked about and that's not being talked about".

[IIIrd]

You could also call it , delaying the decision about the mix. It can be helpful to fix some things, of that there is no doubt...but they should be sorted at mixing, in the studio, before you get to mastering...
It's a big can of worms to open in a room with an hourly charge of £3+ a min in some places....

next there'll be limiting and editing and edl's at glass mastering....it'll need a new name though.

[jackthebear]

It's for this reason we suggest clients come with variations of their mixes in cases where they have doubts about particular elements.....eg vox up +1 or -1 etc.

Sure the heck beats mucking about with stems.....having said that if time and budget allows and client is aware of this and is willing to invest that extra time / charge.......then we will serve their needs......

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by sadboy

OK guys put what i don't understand in here is when we are doing the stems mastering thing, shall we keep the fully-mixed track unmuted along with the other separated tracks like drums, vocal and etc...

because if so, i think am gonna Have a big problem with phasing, or am gonna get that flangy sound...

If you were doing stem mastering, there's no reason to have the fully mixed track in the same session as the stems.
Although you could use the full mix as a reference.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Covered here not too long ago separation mastering?

[joeaudio]

We used to remove stems along with seeds.
In essence "separating" them from the good stuff.
But as Ringo said so well all those years ago
"no no no no I don't smoke it no more"

Maybe Mr. Vestman should take heed.

[heybub419]

Originally Posted by TRJanuary

more fun from this website

here is the "white paper" (it's printed on white paper after all)
explanation of why his $1500 power cable is the bomb.

http://www.johnvestman.com/VDCableNo...evised2007.pdf

Best parts are where he's talking about recording a tone at "0 KHz", and the use of an M Audio usb interface

LOL

[PatrikT]

The concept of stems kind of kicks out both the mixer and the ME further into some kind of dead air-space where nothing can really be credited for or referenced against.

I think neither side of the process (start-to-end) benefits much from it.


Best Regards
Patrik

[adamgonsa]

As mentioned in the other thread; sometimes working from stems is the best route to fix a problem but a stereo mix is usually preferred.

[Red Mastering]

Originally Posted by adamgonsa

As mentioned in the other thread; sometimes working from stems is the best route to fix a problem but a stereo mix is usually preferred.

agree,
also I want MIXER to take responsibility for a MIX, so stem mastering is always a bit of muddy waters
but sometimes is a best solution

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by TRJanuary

more fun from this website

here is the "white paper" (it's printed on white paper after all)
explanation of why his $1500 power cable is the bomb.

http://www.johnvestman.com/VDCableNo...evised2007.pdf

Best parts are where he's talking about recording a tone at "0 KHz", and the use of an M Audio usb interface

I guess they mean DC when they say 0Hz as it's quotes at one point.

Considering a masters degreed professional engineer was involved, that paper is a virtual "Where's Waldo" of technical mistakes and wrong conclusions.


DC

[Bonati]

I've noticed that stem-happy clients start to back away from it slowly after they realize it's going to take longer and cost more money.

Bring in stereo mixes and a few alternates if you like. Let's get to work.

[macc]

I fecking hate working from stems.

[807Recordings]

The only advantage I have seen with stems is when cutting to record.
I have seen where too much stereo bass robs electronic music of a better cut.

However most times though if ppl "can't hear" this on their monitors then it won't matter on the mastering.

[Sunbreak Music]

Originally Posted by macc

I fecking hate working from stems.

How do you feel about working from separations?

[trmchenry]

Originally Posted by Sunbreak Music

How do you feel about working from separations?

I wish the forum had the option to "like" forum posts like on Facebook. If there ever was a time to use it this would be it.