Starting new mastering studio

[Jimmy Mallory]

Greetings fellow slutz,
I've been following the mastering forum for a good long time & have picked up some excellent tips from you guys for which big thanks to all y'all.
Anyway, I have a question - I'm thinking about setting up a mastering studio as a strictly part time enterprise. I'd love to be doing this full time but the head has got to rule above the heart on this one & I realise that this isn't the easiest gig to get into! I also have a full time job which pays well & I would be a fool to give up.
I have access to a fair ammount of capital so I would have no loan to pay back to the bank. I am provisionally planning to spend £75,000 to set up a room so that I can work weekends & touch wood, if things work out, start working on a more permanent basis.
I'd be interested to know what a decent mastering studio turns over cash wise in a year and the kind of profits you can make.
Thanks

[inlinenl]

it's not the studio that makes the cash .. it's the engineer/entrepeneur ...
so the studio on it's own would make less the 0 ..

[Virtalahde]

I get paid in food coupons.

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mallory

I'd be interested to know what a decent mastering studio turns over cash wise in a year and the kind of profits you can make.

I wouldn't come at it from a profit/investment angle...
Start small, build as the business grows ..and do it because you love it.. and if your talented and lucky the rest might fall in line.

Depending on your experience, it will take years to build up chops and clientele.

Figure that everyone and there brother claims to "master" now a days and your work will need to stand out...2 cents

[da goose]

Originally Posted by Virtalahde

I get paid in food coupons.

You must be one big phat dude then.

Anyway, like Wim says, it's not about the studio.
I think that if you are really good at mastering and know what your doing the studio will pay off but it will probably take years. You really have to get customers that trust you first.

[Stereophonic]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mallory

Greetings fellow slutz,
I've been following the mastering forum for a good long time & have picked up some excellent tips from you guys for which big thanks to all y'all.
Anyway, I have a question - I'm thinking about setting up a mastering studio as a strictly part time enterprise. I'd love to be doing this full time but the head has got to rule above the heart on this one & I realise that this isn't the easiest gig to get into! I also have a full time job which pays well & I would be a fool to give up.
I have access to a fair ammount of capital so I would have no loan to pay back to the bank. I am provisionally planning to spend £75,000 to set up a room so that I can work weekends & touch wood, if things work out, start working on a more permanent basis.
I'd be interested to know what a decent mastering studio turns over cash wise in a year and the kind of profits you can make.
Thanks

I think if you're looking at this from an investment / profit angle then it might be in your best interest to invest into a mastering engineer who knows what they're doing and can skip past the experimental stage. Or open your studio up to freelance engineers. You can study with them part time while they bring bands in to your studio full-time. It requires hundreds of bands and thousands of hours of engineering to get any good at this. (I'm sure a great mentor can speed up this process.) And no matter your skill level, there is always room for improvement. So practice and repetition is key. It's called mastering for a reason!
And if you decide to invest into a large room for me, then you're welcome to stop by whenever you wish!

[greggybud]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

I wouldn't come at it from a profit/investment angle...
Start small, build as the business grows ..and do it because you love it.. and if your talented and lucky the rest might fall in line.

Depending on your experience, it will take years to build up chops and clientele.

Figure that everyone and there brother claims to "master" now a days and your work will need to stand out...2 cents

Do listen to Waltz if you desire any reality.

95% of my clients are repeat clients. Where will you get yours? Very few if any will look at your Manely or Weiss and decide to choose you. You will start out competing against the $10 per song on-line crowd. Then if you provide something that sounds better to their ears, the rates will increase.

But then again, I have found that the $10 per song crowd can rarely distinguish a good master from the guy on a PC staying ITB and slapping a limiter on the end.

If you can somehow magically receive mixes from commercial mix engineers you will definitely be ahead in the game. That is one golden opportunity you don't want to waste when establishing your name, not your equipment.

[jackthebear]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mallory

I'd be interested to know what a decent mastering studio turns over cash wise in a year and the kind of profits you can make.
Thanks

You can make a million dollars of profit in this business........













But you have to start with 2 million first........


On a serious note this business can be profitable and you're being quite prudent in looking at some kind of business plan.......

Having said that....if $$$$$ are your primary motivation then I would suggest you perhaps re-consider......gold bullion, land, collectable vintage guitars......whatever will give you a far better return financially and would be a more responsible strategy......

Most of us here didn't get into this biz because we saw it as one-way ticket to massive wealth......those of us who did...did so at our own peril......

I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark here and guess that most of us here do this because we have a passion for music and for the craft itself......

My grandma (bless her soul) once told me "follow the 1 and the 0s will follow".....when you pursue your goals for the sheer love of it then it will kinda work like this.....

You love what you do......you do more of it.....repetition is the mother of skill....therefore you will get better at what it is your doing.......and eventually the market will determine your worth.....

I certainly encourage you to take that step......there are some great points being made here so examine those ideas but don't look the profitability alone.

Concern yourself about living richly.....as opposed to just being rich.......

[jdg]

i still stand by cardboard boxes as a sure fire money maker if you're looking to start a company.

[Jimmy Mallory]

Hey fellas,

Thanks for all the sound advice (no pun intended - groan). I appreciate that it's a hard business to get into and that as Tom said, just about anyone with a PC & a few plug-ins can call themselves a mastering engineer. Consequently I think it is important to invest in a certain ammount of kit - the cynic in me believes that punters want to see expensive shiny equipment in the studio and that bolsters their faith that the engineer knows what they're doing. That said, I appreciate that it's the enginner & not the studio that's making the cash!
I'm hoping to build a reputation over a period of time & invest depending how the business goes.
I do have a couple of fantastic contacts working for major labels who have promised me what I would call 'parts' work. Tagging on an extra track for an album's Japanese release for example and running a bunch of masters etc. If this comes to fruition this would be something I would be very interested in. I would be interested in what you slutz would charge for this kind of work - I was thinking that £150 an hour would not be an unreasonable fee or am I crazy?
This would be easy work to do whilst trying to build a career. Let me know your thoughts...

[Silvertone]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mallory

Hey fellas,

Thanks for all the sound advice (no pun intended - groan). I appreciate that it's a hard business to get into and that as Tom said, just about anyone with a PC & a few plug-ins can call themselves a mastering engineer. Consequently I think it is important to invest in a certain ammount of kit - the cynic in me believes that punters want to see expensive shiny equipment in the studio and that bolsters their faith that the engineer knows what they're doing. That said, I appreciate that it's the enginner & not the studio that's making the cash!
I'm hoping to build a reputation over a period of time & invest depending how the business goes.
I do have a couple of fantastic contacts working for major labels who have promised me what I would call 'parts' work. Tagging on an extra track for an album's Japanese release for example and running a bunch of masters etc. If this comes to fruition this would be something I would be very interested in. I would be interested in what you slutz would charge for this kind of work - I was thinking that £150 an hour would not be an unreasonable fee or am I crazy?
This would be easy work to do whilst trying to build a career. Let me know your thoughts...

Easy work? Train your ears for 10 years doing just mastering everyday then it might be easy work.

Your starting rate is more per hour than some of the best guys in the US... maybe on the other side of the pond you can get more.

Your ears, skill set, room and monitors are far more important than the gear...

I worked with professional mastering engineers for 15 years before becoming one... even then it was another 10 till I knew all the "tricks" involved. It's a great business... good luck.

Ears open!

[Virtalahde]

Personally, I think the worst start you could have would be to sit in a fully equipped high end room with zero experience. Or what kind of experience do you have?

Limitations are good. You can't download all the knowledge in your head at once, and having to work your way up with a minimal set-up can be a great thing from the learning point of view. The only place I would spend extra cash at this point would be the room, the acoustics and the speakers.

Heck, build a kick ass home theatre or a stereo listening room. As extra, buy a computer, a good D/A to go and a good monitor controller. Software as needed.

If you can't work your way up with that setup, you won't.

[PBM]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mallory

I was thinking that £150 an hour would not be an unreasonable fee or am I crazy? This would be easy work to do whilst trying to build a career. Let me know your thoughts...

As you asked: crazy. I just don't understand where this figure can have come from: £150 an hour for *easy work* while still building a career?

You will have a lot of competition to contend with (in the UK and europe anyway) at £150 a day.


Eric

[lowland]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mallory

Hey fellas,
I do have a couple of fantastic contacts working for major labels who have promised me what I would call 'parts' work. Tagging on an extra track for an album's Japanese release for example and running a bunch of masters etc. If this comes to fruition this would be something I would be very interested in. I would be interested in what you slutz would charge for this kind of work - I was thinking that £150 an hour would not be an unreasonable fee or am I crazy?
This would be easy work to do whilst trying to build a career. Let me know your thoughts...

Yes, in the nicest possible way, you're crazy. Something under half of what you quoted would be more like, on a good day with some experience behind you. How did you come by that figure? And why would record companies pass that work to you when they could get someone with decades of experience and hence reliability for the same money?

Your pitch is not making a lot of sense to me at the moment, please feel free to enlighten further. As with Larry, the term 'easy work' is troubling me.

[Joe_caithness]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

Start small, build as the business grows ..and do it because you love it.. and if your talented and lucky the rest might fall in line.

Exactly,

Invest less, don't do it as a day job for a coupla years, use your pocket money on the studio for extra bits and bobs you feel you need AS YOU GO ALONG.

No point buying one of everything and learning you actually don't like the sound of valve compression after spending 5000 on something top end.

It also allows you to learn you client base, you will buy equipment based on what people need, for example I work with a lot of Bass heavy dance music, therefore I got a compressor with a HF sidechain.. you learn these things and it only makes you a better service for your customers.

[Joe_caithness]

Originally Posted by PBM

As you asked: crazy. I just don't understand where this figure can have come from: £150 an hour for *easy work* while still building a career?

You will have a lot of competition to contend with (in the UK and europe anyway) at £150 a day.


Eric

I charge £25 an hour and have been trading from scratch and learning/building up a client base from ground zero, I don't make any profit yet, but I do have lots of very friendly people coming back and back who as they build up their labels, I will be building up my gear/experience/business plan.

£150 an hour seems complete insane to me. I would make zero sales based on that. I would make zero on 50 pounds an hour as I am essentially, and I guess you will be to, an "un named ME" for the meantime.

[Virtalahde]

Originally Posted by lowland

As with Larry, the term 'easy work' is troubling me.

Same here. I think the OP's endeavour might be money, easy work and expensive equipment instead of love for music & sound.

Lazy people and mastering don't go well together.

[csr]

Agreed.

Real mastering is challenging work. Running a business is more work on top of that. Marketing any new business adds more. Marketing a brand new mastering studio + engineer in days when you require neither a cutting lathe nor a 1630 is even harder considering the percentage of your market who can't decide if you are worth more to them than a TC Finalizer or some PT plug-ins.

Good luck.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

My advice is like a lot of what you have already gotten.

Start small - put a majority of your money in something that will earn interest - then put most of the money you are going to spend to get started into your room and monitoring system - as you get better and find out what you need then spend the money to get what you NEED (not just want) pretty soon, if you are any good, you will be making enough money to support yourself and your equipment and a tidy profit and you can still have "money in the bank (or whatever is paying interest these days).

As to charge out rates.

Not sure how it is in your part of the world but...you maybe somewhat high for just starting out.

The best thing you can do for yourself is make up a business plan. Put down all your expenses. Divide that total by how many hours per week you will be working and that will tell you what your hourly rates should be. Be truthful and don't forget to pay yourself for your time as part of the expenses. Tweak as you go and pretty soon you will be on course to pay for your equipment, pay for all your other expenses and make some money for yourself.

My mentor told me long ago it is NOT about the equipment. The client assumes you have the gear to get the job done and you have the best equipment you can afford. It is also NOT about all the fancy names on the equipment but your expertise and knowledge to get the job done and done well. (I guess I should take my mentor to lunch more often)

The world right now does not need another "mastering engineer" but if it is your passion I say go for it. Lots of mastering engineers came from the recording/mixing side of the business. Some just knew they wanted to be mastering engineers from the get go. I would say that finding the right mentor(s) for mastering and for business might be a very wise idea. Most mastering engineers that are well respected got their start working under someone else with good chops. There have to be some really good mastering engineers you could talk to or visit around your part of the world so reach out to them and ask for ideas and suggestions.

Best of luck! and let us know how things are going!

[greggybud]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mallory

the cynic in me believes that punters want to see expensive shiny equipment in the studio and that bolsters their faith that the engineer knows what they're doing. I was thinking that £150 an hour would not be an unreasonable fee or am I crazy?
This would be easy work to do whilst trying to build a career. Let me know your thoughts...

Stealing photos from Sterling Sound, and posting them on your own mastering website would save you a lot of money. Most people don't care about equipment. They want results.

(150=238.71 today.)

Frame of reference: The top ME's who have devoted their entire careers to mastering (note...not mixing or recording but mastering only) aren't that much more than 238.71. Brian Gardner, who has been doing this since Jefferson Starship, charges 390 per hour. ME's with dozens, maybe hundreds of credits with Billboard charting albums can be found for $100 per hour. (That's 62.84 in England) As said above without any experience and buying expensive gear maybe 1/3 of 62.84.

You are going to need some really fantastic contacts.

And it's far from easy work.

Good luck!

[krytikal1]

Just want to add....

I don't think anyone here is trying to discourage you from pursuing mastering. I think we all just believe that you don't really have a firm grasp on the reality of the business and the current market.


Yes, get a great room, and some great gear...but don't expect any return on investment in the near or distant future. If studios made money, they'd still be in business. I don't know many studios that are truly profitable these days. Just the engineers that work in them and bring them the business. Your mastering room will be no different. It's not the gear that brings the business, It's the engineer. Of course having the gear is great, and may or may not allow you to "appear" as a "real" engineer. But the only time I have anyone ask about my gear, is when I have repeat producers asking for some specific "treatment". And that is not the norm.

I also like the idea of getting only 1 or 2 pieces of gear at a time. It really forces you to learn the box inside and out for the best and worst features and capabilities in it. Go for it...but take all these suggestions into strong consideration.

K

[manman]

75000 euro of investements? you r kidding right???/


in first place you do not need so much cash for mastering studio.

secondly if you find clients how long it will take you to make it back?? 10 years? lol

[WBM]

I 'll listen to all the experience Me's, I had the same question years ago?
I started in USA FL, way too many Me's with credits and good solid client base, so I decided to move where are less mastering houses.
I quit the way of living 20 years, in exchange to keep the passion in the profession, it's a long way be patience, mouth to mouth business.
If is what you feel ? go ahead worth it, if it makes you happy.

[losvlados]

It's good to invest in Hardware but the most important thing is the Experience.And belive me to stay every day in the studio and bombarding you ears whit Db. is not so easy.Invest first in Studing and Learning and after then in big progect's like 75,000£.And for 150£ at day you must be realy good sound enginere,but if you realy like this job you will find the right decision.