Subjective bass level of flat speaker systems

[HomeProducer]

I love bass heavy dance music with deep buttom end which you can feel.

Due to a lot of mixing problems in the past, one question came to my mind:

Do dance mixes sound rather bass-shy on flat, perfectly balanced high-end speakers? Or do they give you that listening pleasure if you crank up the volume (like in a club)? Are club systems always hyped in the bass in order to get the desired sound? So does the typical mix engineer intentionally put too little bass in the mix to avoid problems or use a hyped monitor system instead (with sub basses enhanced by a few dB)?

My room has some bass treatment. I use two monitor systems in parallel (a7+sub 8 and genelec 8050). I adjusted bass levels on the speakers to get a flat response as good as possible. Each system has its faults but they complement each other (40 hz dip here, 70 hz dip there).

Now:

If I adjust bass levels of a mix to taste, my pc speakers often distort heavily (they do that also on Kanye West heartbeat and 808). If I reduce the bass to a level where speakers do not distort, the upper mids of the genelecs kill me, it sounds too much in-your-face. Maybe I have a hearing problem so important to check. If I really get that bass pressure I like, it's almost always too much (judged by the JBL pc speakers).

Another point is that in my case, ear fatigue shows up much earlier for bass, meaning that I can judge bass only for a short period of time, and then my ears get used to it. Does anyone have the same problem?

I also measured if my Genelec speakers compress the low end, but they seem not to do so.

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by HomeProducer

Do dance mixes sound rather bass-shy on flat, perfectly balanced high-end speakers?

On a well balanced high end speaker system the bass or low end should not be shy.

Originally Posted by HomeProducer

do they give you that listening pleasure if you crank up the volume (like in a club)?

If your referring to high sound pressure levels, a system that is designed for mastering can certainly have enough power to give you that, but with the long time health of your hearing being at risk, listening at absurd levels might be something that is only used for a spot check once in a while.

[SPORT]

Originally Posted by HomeProducer

I love bass heavy dance music with deep buttom end which you can feel.

Due to a lot of mixing problems in the past, one question came to my mind:
I use two monitor systems in parallel (a7+sub 8 and genelec 8050). .

two questions:
a7+sub8 are calibrated?
what about the kick sound?
i may say 60% of bass sound came from the kick.

[HomeProducer]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

On a well balanced high end speaker system the bass or low end should not be shy.


If your referring to high sound pressure levels, a system that is designed for mastering can certainly have enough power to give you that, but with the long time health of your hearing being at risk, listening at absurd levels might be something that is only used for a spot check once in a while.

yes of course I would never work on high SPL long-term, only to check things.

[HomeProducer]

Originally Posted by SPORT

two questions:
a7+sub8 are calibrated?
what about the kick sound?
i may say 60% of bass sound came from the kick.

the A7s+Sub are calibrated, I spend a lot of time to measure the best compromise (flattest response).

Yes, the kick or the combination kick + bass can cause the problem as well.

To give you an example for a commercial song where the kick is too loud
and causes distortion, it's "Love Lockdown" from Kanye West.But this is
the level of deep kick I like!

[SPORT]

Originally Posted by HomeProducer

To give you an example for a commercial song where the kick is too loud
and causes distortion, it's "Love Lockdown" from Kanye West.But this is
the level of deep kick I like!

WOW to mach bass for me. try low shelf 60hz and cut 53hz(bell filter, narrow Q).

[HomeProducer]

Originally Posted by SPORT

WOW to mach bass for me. try low shelf 60hz and cut 53hz(bell filter, narrow Q).

yes it's too much and I can hear that here as well. But it doesn't hurt my ears.

[barefoot]

Originally Posted by HomeProducer

I love bass heavy dance music with deep buttom end which you can feel.

Due to a lot of mixing problems in the past, one question came to my mind:

Do dance mixes sound rather bass-shy on flat, perfectly balanced high-end speakers? Or do they give you that listening pleasure if you crank up the volume (like in a club)?....

Hate to say it, but I think the answer is.... it depends. Some dance mixes do fall flat on accurate speakers. And I think maybe this is because they were produced on very hyped 'one note bass' systems. Perhapse it's great if you're playback system happens to be tuned to that same note. And I guess that's why DJ mixers have EQ knobs. But a really well produced mix will sound better on a variety of systems. IMO these mixes are usually more gut shaking and have more overall impact than mixes that depend on playback systems with booming bass. Just off of the top of my head, two discs that I think have really big, deep and visceral low end on hi-end speakers are Goldfrapp "Black Cherry" and Yello "The Eye."

Diplomacy dictates that I won't name names on bad mixes. But I can say that a significant percentage of especially the house and trance mixes I've heard on my speakers are... well... lacking.


Thomas

[huejahfink]

I think a lot of dance stuff is going out with the mid/tops forward, so that the perceived volume is louder.

Ultimately, I think you need to mix it how you feel it is right, then go check it in the club. Pretty soon you'll know how it translates.