Destroying a Great Mix?

Slyderhodge · 16th September 2010

Had a very interesting project last night. Guy had 4 tracks that were recorded at a top notch studio, but ran out of cash to finish his project there. So he recorded the next 6 songs at some basement studio that did not have near the equipment or experience as the former.

So the guy brings me a CD of all 10 songs and says he wants them mastered so that vox and bass match and there is flow from one song to the next. The guy wasn't paying much so I couldn't spend a lot of time on in it, but the time I did spend on the latter tracks was futile. Tweaked the EQ as best I could and got the levels consistent. I stopped short of negatively EQing the first 4 tracks in order to lower the quality of them to match the rest of the album. I talked to the engineer that worked on the first 4 songs and said do whatever the client wanted b/c he had already told him (after the client asked him to "fix the last 6 songs, and he declined) that he did not want his name or his studio to be listed in the liner notes for the album.

Have you guys ever had a similar situation where the only way to get a consistent tone/vibe/flow to a project you needed to lower the quality of some songs?

This totally goes against my gut instinct (the reason I didn't do it), but if the client insists I guess I will, b/c I need the money.

huejahfink · 16th September 2010

I think I would do my best with the weaker ones and the good ones... let them be!
Better to have a mix of average to good quality, rather than consistently mediocre.

echoRausch · 16th September 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by huejahfink

I think I would do my best with the weaker ones and the good ones... let them be!
Better to have a mix of average to good quality, rather than consistently mediocre.

+1!

PatrikT · 16th September 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyderhdoge

Have you guys ever had a similar situation where the only way to get a consistent tone/vibe/flow to a project you needed to lower the quality of some songs?

Uh, no.

I have not yet found not single reason to go against what the ear says and it seems the ear always helps for any kind of consictency thorughout any project.

Not to forget that the big consistency always is pretty carved in rock by the mixer.

And that songs actually sounds a little different on albums, one from another.

Best Regards
Patrik

krytikal1 · 16th September 2010

Make the great sounding ones sound as great as possible (That could mean leaving them as is) and do the best you can with the bad ones.

Early in my career I went to an ME that made the good ones match the not so good ones by making the good sounding ones not sound as good. (nice sentence there!) Needless to say I never went back as I felt this was a horrible philosophy....and the record sounded worse than it could have.

I can't think of a single client that would appreciate you turning back something that sounded worse than what they had given you. The only time might be if they are specifically asking for you to destroy it for some aesthetic reason.

K.

Slyderhodge · 16th September 2010

Client is supposed to pick up this evening. I'm interested to get some feedback from him. I've worked on some projects that had some continuity issues before, but nothing as night and day as this. It was like trying to match something recorded at Southern Tracks to something recorded on a old yamaha md4.... ugh

Yiannis · 16th September 2010

You shouldn't kill the best quality tracks for the sake of the lower quality ones!

Just do your best for the LQ tracks.

jackthebear · 16th September 2010

Never dumb your work down......it only fosters mediocrity.....remember the difference between ordinary and extraordinary......is that little EXTRA!!

heybub419 · 19th September 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackthebear

remember the difference between ordinary and extraordinary......is that little EXTRA!!

my mom always says that haha

and its true too!

OceanMan · 21st September 2010

you did what you could. Good idea to keep the best at the beginning...

huejahfink · 21st September 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by OceanMan

Good idea to keep the best at the beginning...

Not necessarily. Whilst leading on the 'good foot' is a good idea, I think that top loading the album with the 'best' tracks is more likely to make people switch off half way through and not experience the whole album.

binarymilton · 21st September 2010

I'd sequence the album 2 good tracks, 1 bad, 1 good, 2 bad, 1 good, 3 bad.

I'd probably make some radical EQ choices on the vox and drums of the lower quality ones (if poss) to at least try to get them within spitting distance of the EQ on the good ones.

theboogieman · 21st September 2010

I'd tell him to release the six bad songs as a demo ep type thing and save the four good ones until he can afford to finish the album with six new tunes of the same quality.

doorknocker · 21st September 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by huejahfink

Not necessarily. Whilst leading on the 'good foot' is a good idea, I think that top loading the album with the 'best' tracks is more likely to make people switch off half way through and not experience the whole album.

Are you trying to tell us that folks still listen to ENTIRE albums these days? BTW, I'm only halfway kidding.

Absolutely put the best songs first! There's a story that U2 couldn't decide on the track order for 'Joshua Tree' and in the end a lady afiilitated with the band did the order by just putting her favorite tracks first. And that's exactly how I always heard that album even years before hearing that story (that may not be true anyway). 'The Joshua Tree' starts off extremely strong and then loses impact after 4 or 5 songs, mainly because the big hitters are all upfront.

If it worked for U2 then it will work for your cash-deprived artists as well! Like it or not, first impressions count and that's truer today than it ever was before.

huejahfink · 21st September 2010

For a demo, certainly.

Slyderhodge · 22nd September 2010

So the client picked up Monday... I wasn't around, one of the other guys handled it.. but we already pressed 100 of them since he didn't show up last week. Guess he's stuck with the results for the first 100. Truth of the matter I've known this guy for many years, when I was on the road we would be at a lot of the same events. It will probably be at least a year before he sells 100. I haven't heard from him or the "producer" (a friend and studio regular) to get a report card on the job... I'm interested to see what they think.

In the end I didn't do much to the 4 good tracks... just kept them ITB and brought the levels up. Even after I worked and reworked and reworked the last 6 it was still night and day. Not anything I'm gonna be proud to put on my resume, but it paid cash.

This brings up another question (I guess I'm hijacking my own thread) do you guys ever get stuff across your desk that you just refuse to work with? Either just said no or jacked the price up so high you knew the guy/gal would go somewhere else.

16th September 2010	#1
Slyderhodge Gear Head Joined: Aug 2010 Location: Floyd, Va Posts: 56 Thread Starter	Destroying a Great Mix? Had a very interesting project last night. Guy had 4 tracks that were recorded at a top notch studio, but ran out of cash to finish his project there. So he recorded the next 6 songs at some basement studio that did not have near the equipment or experience as the former. So the guy brings me a CD of all 10 songs and says he wants them mastered so that vox and bass match and there is flow from one song to the next. The guy wasn't paying much so I couldn't spend a lot of time on in it, but the time I did spend on the latter tracks was futile. Tweaked the EQ as best I could and got the levels consistent. I stopped short of negatively EQing the first 4 tracks in order to lower the quality of them to match the rest of the album. I talked to the engineer that worked on the first 4 songs and said do whatever the client wanted b/c he had already told him (after the client asked him to "fix the last 6 songs, and he declined) that he did not want his name or his studio to be listed in the liner notes for the album. Have you guys ever had a similar situation where the only way to get a consistent tone/vibe/flow to a project you needed to lower the quality of some songs? This totally goes against my gut instinct (the reason I didn't do it), but if the client insists I guess I will, b/c I need the money.

16th September 2010	#2
huejahfink Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,285 Verified Member	I think I would do my best with the weaker ones and the good ones... let them be! Better to have a mix of average to good quality, rather than consistently mediocre. __________________ Contact : Rich Hughes / mastering@binaryfeedback.com / Discogs Technical Credits

16th September 2010	#8
jackthebear Gear addict Joined: Aug 2010 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 441 Verified Member	Never dumb your work down......it only fosters mediocrity.....remember the difference between ordinary and extraordinary......is that little EXTRA!! __________________ Cheers, Tony "Jack the Bear" Mantz Jack the Bear's Deluxe Mastering facebook \| myspace \| twitter Glorified Tape Copy Boy & Audio Janitor Ground 'n' Pound Specialist All round goofball Dither authority K-System disciple Double blind AB BA BX tester

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16th September 2010	#5
krytikal1 Gear addict Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 442	Make the great sounding ones sound as great as possible (That could mean leaving them as is) and do the best you can with the bad ones. Early in my career I went to an ME that made the good ones match the not so good ones by making the good sounding ones not sound as good. (nice sentence there!) Needless to say I never went back as I felt this was a horrible philosophy....and the record sounded worse than it could have. I can't think of a single client that would appreciate you turning back something that sounded worse than what they had given you. The only time might be if they are specifically asking for you to destroy it for some aesthetic reason. K.

16th September 2010	#7
Yiannis Gear addict Joined: Oct 2003 Location: Crete Posts: 485	You shouldn't kill the best quality tracks for the sake of the lower quality ones! Just do your best for the LQ tracks.

21st September 2010	#10
OceanMan Gear addict Joined: May 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 460	you did what you could. Good idea to keep the best at the beginning...

21st September 2010	#12
binarymilton Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2010 Location: London Posts: 1,389	I'd sequence the album 2 good tracks, 1 bad, 1 good, 2 bad, 1 good, 3 bad. I'd probably make some radical EQ choices on the vox and drums of the lower quality ones (if poss) to at least try to get them within spitting distance of the EQ on the good ones.

21st September 2010	#13
theboogieman Gear Head Joined: Aug 2010 Location: Isle Of Man Posts: 67	I'd tell him to release the six bad songs as a demo ep type thing and save the four good ones until he can afford to finish the album with six new tunes of the same quality.

22nd September 2010	#16
Slyderhodge Gear Head Joined: Aug 2010 Location: Floyd, Va Posts: 56 Thread Starter	So the client picked up Monday... I wasn't around, one of the other guys handled it.. but we already pressed 100 of them since he didn't show up last week. Guess he's stuck with the results for the first 100. Truth of the matter I've known this guy for many years, when I was on the road we would be at a lot of the same events. It will probably be at least a year before he sells 100. I haven't heard from him or the "producer" (a friend and studio regular) to get a report card on the job... I'm interested to see what they think. In the end I didn't do much to the 4 good tracks... just kept them ITB and brought the levels up. Even after I worked and reworked and reworked the last 6 it was still night and day. Not anything I'm gonna be proud to put on my resume, but it paid cash. This brings up another question (I guess I'm hijacking my own thread) do you guys ever get stuff across your desk that you just refuse to work with? Either just said no or jacked the price up so high you knew the guy/gal would go somewhere else.