What's the best mastering EQ for my stereo buss?

[PJB5060]

OK...I was responsible during my mid life crisis and did my research. I replaced my old analog console with a Sony DMX R-100, bought a portico mic pre, nice big G5 with logic 7 and every virtual instrument going and I'm now building a mastering chain.

I took the words of wisdom from this board and tried a STC-8 and Hedd and liked them but I'm darned if I can make my mind up on an EQ. Tried a Millenia NSEQ-2 but preferred the Massive Passive. I like it's warmth but wonder whether it's just a little soft around the top end and just a bit colored.

I know mastering has been done to death on this board but has anyone got any fresh ideas?

I'm a composer first, engineer second... if you know what I mean and produce mainly television and film soundtracks and the occasional album project. I have kept my old finalizer for crunchy telly projects.

PJB

[natpub]

The best??? hmm, I know there are some custom rigs out there that are probably just sick.

Off the shelf, I'll vote the GML & Cranesong. If you have an STC8, at least your rack would look super green with an IBIS :-)

[THE GEEK]

THIS ONE

[Tetness]

If you can afford it, then FAIRMAN TMEQ.

[RoundBadge]

If you go the Masssive route, I have one for sale at a reasonable price in the classifieds.

[Darius van H]

I feel pretty well covered by the Massive and Ibis (and Weiss).....

...the MP is great for adding midrange warmth, color and low-end mud (sometimes this is exactly what you need!)

The Ibis will give you the hi-end sparkle, low power and the added bonus of the unique "color" function, whereby you can add a touch (or more) of distortion to a particular frequency range - very powerful feature.

Sorry, but one EQ just isn't going to give you all that you need!

[Trailerman]

Just went through a similar process.

I compared the Massive Passive against the Great River EQ2-NV. We ended up buying the Massive - it just had an extra layer of character that I've never heard with any other EQ. Each time I did a band to band comparison between the GR and the Massive, I always preferred the GR, but when I put everything in place and A/B'd whole mixes with all bands in place at comparable settings, the Massive won every single time. No kidding - I kept wanting to pick the GR but picked the Massive blind on 9 out of 9 mixes.

If I was buying a tracking/channel EQ I'd buy the Great River - it's bottom band at 56Hz does stuff to bass and kick the massive couldn't touch.

Overall, I don't think one EQ really covers you for mastering/mix-buss though. I'd ideally like an Ibis or GML 8200 behind the Massive for more refined tweaks. Massive's a great start though.

Jules

PS: Roundbadge - why are you ditching the MP?

[okailla]

Originally Posted by THE GEEK

THIS ONE

"This is definitely one mighty wolf in sheep’s clothes!", Uli Behringer 2005

[Greg Heimbecker]

I'm guessing round badge is letting the mp go because he just scored a pair of these... http://dwfearn.com/eq.htm

[Silver Sonya]

Respectfully, I submit to you that anyone who self-describes as a musician first and engineer second should not be concerning themselves with mastering. Mastering is, arguably, the most engineer-y area of pro audio and requires finesse (and, frankly, nerdy obsession) that goes outside of the skill set and objectives you've laid out in your first post.

My suggestion: find a local professional mastering engineer and establish a rapport, a working relationship based on a fair rate and a technically superior end result. It's worth so much more than buying yourself a massive passive (a device so powerful that if you *don't* know what you're doing, you're likely to do a lot of damage just by choosing the wrong frequencies.)

Finding someone to play this role for you will save you money and hassle. You may want to attend the first session, but if things work out, you'll eventualy just send him/her your music and it will come back sounding better. And you'll just relax and concentrate on your art.

This is all sounding kind of chauvenistic on my part, because I AM a mastering engineer by trade. And I realize this viewpoint will therefore be easy to discredit. But what can I say? I think it's wisdom.

My last two statements:

1) In my experience, most non-fulltime-engineer people make bad choices with EQ. Partially because they can't hear it until it's extreme and partially because of lack of experience or musical logic. (The best EQ is logical!) A bad choice with a powerful EQ is a REALLY bad choice. The Massive Passive in the wrong hands could be... massively wrong!

2) Even dentists have to go to the dentist. When I mix something, I send it to another mastering engineer. (In my case, one of three: Jeff Lipton, Emily Lazar, or Allen Douches.) Objectivity can be a wonderful thing.

I don't mean to insult you at all; quite the contrary. You are an artist, a composer and a professional one. I'm saying focus on that; the myriad details and complexities you're already facing (both artistically and business-wise) is substantial. Why add an extra layer?

Find someone to trust.

Cheers,

Chad

[The MPCist]

I don't think he's talking about mastering it. More like a 'recallable' EQ for the main buss..... I've got the Massive Passive..... and it's pretty passive these days.... GML is the flavor of the year for me.... Looking at the IBIS though.

I ordered an IBIS 2 years ago.. My dealer shipped it to me and it got stolen where he dropped it off at FedEx. That dealer has refused to get me a new one and blamed FedEx for it.

So I never got to try the IBIS although I did pay for it. Cranesong, if you are reading this, email me for his name and please kick him off your dealers list.

[Trailerman]

With respect Chad, I don't think PJB is trying to master his own mixes. He's looking for a great EQ for the mix-buss.

Whether or not mastering engineers like it, mix engineers increasingly like to add a little something to the mix as it comes off the desk. Even the engineering greats (George Massenberg et. al) use mix bus compression and often EQ as well, to help add a modicum of cohesion and final balance to a mix. It doesn't mean they're trying to usurp Mastering Engineers, just making subtle adjustments to overall tone and dynamics, which they feel rounds out the mix ... pre-mastering.

Whilst I acknowledge the risks of meddling with something one is not qualified to do, I don't believe any kind of mix processing unless carried out by an ME has to be taboo. I think a mix has to leave the mix room sounding as good as it can, and if that means a touch of compression here, a db of high or low shelf there, then I don't see the danger. Ultimately, the final touches will be applied in mastering anyway, but lets get it sounding as good as we can first, and let the ME worry about levels, track alignment, limiting, super fine EQ adjustments etc.

Of course mix buss processing will never fix something that's wrong in the mix, but somebody who's going to destroy a mix with bad EQ choices across the 2-bus, has probably already destroyed it in the mix anyhow.

Just my view of course.

Jules

[RecTeach]

I have an IBIS and a 82 series GML. At this point I would have to lean a little more towards the IBIS at this point. Even when running through it with no EQ added it adds depth to the stereo field which is just incredible!

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Trailerman

PS: Roundbadge - why are you ditching the MP?

I'm more into a adding a little sweet richness on the 2, which the Fearns are the sh*t.
And for tracking..
The MP is a great EQ..I'm just not using it on the stereo buss as much as I thought I would..
good for tweaking vocals,bass and guitars though..good snare fixer too.

[Bob Olhsson]

To my taste GML is the one to beat for mastering.

It's important to understand that mix eq. is used to increase contrast between different elements by adding character to just a few or for gluing things together by adding the same character to everything. Anytime you add character, you generally also need to change the treatment of individual elements which can only be done in the mix.

Mastering eq. is used mostly to mitigate unintended coloration.

[Trailerman]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

I'm more into a adding a little sweet richness on the 2, which the Fearns are the sh*t.
And for tracking..
The MP is a great EQ..I'm just not using it on the stereo buss as much as I thought I would..
good for tweaking vocals,bass and guitars though..good snare fixer too.

You lucky B$&*#£d!! You really are a slut

I'm still hoping Doug's going to do a stereo version of the VT-4, but I don't think it's going to happen any time soon. Two of them is some serious moolar!

Are they your permanent mix-buss EQ? Funny how things get designed for one thing and end up at home somewhere totally different.

Bob's spot on about mix EQ vs. Mastering. If you're adding 2-buss EQ during the mix, you can still touch channels if they need it - it's a more hybrid, interactive approach than eq'ing in the mastering phase ... without wanting to sound anal about it or anything

Jules

[C.Lambrechts]

as far as mastering EQ goes ... We just spent 3 days at Galaxy's mastering studio here in Belgium and the ME there was using these :

http://www.spl-usa.com/PQ/pq_in_short.html


I can only say that I was pretty impressed by them.


But then again I was also pretty impressed by their egglestone works speakers and the Millenia comp's and everything else in the room.

And of course one also needs a ME who knows how to use them .... which in addition to the the gear and the room at Galaxy was absolutely the case.

[Sam Lord]

I have *zero* expertise here, but these threads were informative:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/ind...7aa8#msg_76525

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/ind...b83f95a2c2ba0d

From the last, on the Legendary Masterpiece hardware vs. Algorithmix EQ software:

"I've had fine results on projects done only with Algorithmix, only with the Masterpiece, and also with a combination of both. Each scenario is capable of audio quality that is as good as it gets. All Algorithmix excels in transparency, and all Masterpiece has that analog thing that poets and reviewers strive to describe. Algorithmix and the Masterpiece are both very beautiful sounding processors."

Alan Silverman

[PJB5060]

Yes... mix eq describes better my requirement. I fully acknowledge the importance and expertise of mastering engineers and on my bigger projects budget for them.

I will say that during the composing/arranging stage it is always inspiring to have a nice compressor and eq on the overall mix monitoring. The glue factor and added character really does help the process... just the same way as the inherent qualities of a great instrument help or the aesthetic of recording environment.

Thanks for the suggestions and I will follow through on them.

PJB

[Tone Laborer]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

So I never got to try the IBIS although I did pay for it. .

Ouch, man, that's horrible.

[Ollie]

I attended a mastering session last month at Gravity Studios in Chicago. Doug McBride is the mastering engineer at Gravity. One of major ideas that I took away from th mastering process was that many tools were used, but each tool was used slightly to chip away at the problem areas to get the final product in the right place. Many tools with each tool doing a little bit here and there.

[castle]

You ask for fresh ideas, so.... I'm also using a Sony DMX and have a DAV BG3 mastering EQ across the buss. It's not surgical in any way, but it IS a fantastic "tone control" with the most beautiful high end and really rich lows. Never seen much about it here, but I wouldn't change it for anything as a mix EQ - it does exactly what I want! http://www.davelectronics.com/bg3.htm

[Fat larry]

I am a mastering engineer I already own a MP as well as other eq's .When I have enough cash for another eq it will either be the WEISS linear phase or the Prism MEA2.I have not tried the GML although I hear it is very nice,but you really should check out the prism before you make your mind up. You can find it here;
http://www.prismsound.com/music_reco...cts_mea_2.html

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by PJB5060

Tried a Millenia NSEQ-2 but preferred the Massive Passive. I like it's warmth but wonder whether it's just a little soft around the top end and just a bit colored.



PJB

You can always change the tubes in the NSEQ-2 it improves that side.

If the MP is a little too colored, use the transformerless output.

Personally i've stopped using EQ on the mixbuss.

I haven't needed it. thumbsup

The only EQ's i would throw on the mixbuss is a pair of well maintained Pultec EQP-1A3's and i would just run the audio through it.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Fat larry

I am a mastering engineer I already own a MP as well as other eq's .When I have enough cash for another eq it will either be the WEISS linear phase or the Prism MEA2.I have not tried the GML although I hear it is very nice,but you really should check out the prism before you make your mind up. You can find it here;
http://www.prismsound.com/music_reco...cts_mea_2.html

The Prism EQ is a little dry and bland for my taste.

[Mrs. Fairman]

FAIRMAN Tube Mastering Equalizer TMEQ oder TMEQ 'SPE'.
www.truetrackrec.de/FairmanPricelistEU.htm


FAIRMAN & JAMBOR – SPE MK-IV TMEQ mastering equalizer.

Originally Posted by PJB5060

OK...I was responsible during my mid life crisis and did my research. I replaced my old analog console with a Sony DMX R-100, bought a portico mic pre, nice big G5 with logic 7 and every virtual instrument going and I'm now building a mastering chain.

I took the words of wisdom from this board and tried a STC-8 and Hedd and liked them but I'm darned if I can make my mind up on an EQ. Tried a Millenia NSEQ-2 but preferred the Massive Passive. I like it's warmth but wonder whether it's just a little soft around the top end and just a bit colored.

I know mastering has been done to death on this board but has anyone got any fresh ideas?

I'm a composer first, engineer second... if you know what I mean and produce mainly television and film soundtracks and the occasional album project. I have kept my old finalizer for crunchy telly projects.

PJB

[Sam Lord]

That's great Madam, you should advertise for them.

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by PJB5060

OK...I was responsible during my mid life crisis and did my research. I replaced my old analog console with a Sony DMX R-100, bought a portico mic pre, nice big G5 with logic 7 and every virtual instrument going and I'm now building a mastering chain.

I took the words of wisdom from this board and tried a STC-8 and Hedd and liked them but I'm darned if I can make my mind up on an EQ. Tried a Millenia NSEQ-2 but preferred the Massive Passive. I like it's warmth but wonder whether it's just a little soft around the top end and just a bit colored.

I know mastering has been done to death on this board but has anyone got any fresh ideas? .

I'm a composer first, engineer second... if you know what I mean and produce mainly television and film soundtracks and the occasional album project. I have kept my old finalizer for crunchy telly projects.

PJB

PJB,

I'm in exactly the same boat as you. Kinda scary actually. And for toppers have the same gear. More composing lately but swings from post to rec/capture to SFX to ADR to Foley to... well you get the drift. Logic (under TDM) is still the deal too.

I'm about to grab a MP but I use the EQ in the DMX which is really good stuff. Why the hell is one of the bands disabled in the Main EQ? F@#%in' Sony!

I'm looking too but for what I call fast mastering. Not mastering per say but for EQ'ing the stems for further use downstream. Sometimes I'm told; "this one's going for broadcast" so "seal the deal" and "fast master" it. Nice huh?

Anyway, I'd love to help you with this and also watch closely what you choose.

Hey roundbadge - A MP in the classifieds eh? Hmmmmm... goin' there now.

[Trailerman]

Jeez there she is again!!

PLEASE make the SPAM stop!!

[SiliconAudioLab]

YEAH! I KNOW!! WTF Jules?!?