Arcade Fire - The Suburbs

[West0n]

Originally Posted by lucey

... if this record sounded much better the impact could have been greater, a wider reach, more emotional impact, timeless appeal. it could maybe even change the world. This record ... unlikely.

The album was Album of the Year at the Juno Awards and the 53rd Grammy Awards, won Best International Album at the 2011 BRIT Awards and was also on numerous best-albums-of-the-year lists:

• #1 - BBC 6 Music's Top 50 albums of the year[29]
• #1 - Clash Magazine's Top 40 Albums of 2010[30]
• #1 - Exclaim!'s Top 20 Albums of 2010[31]
• #1 - Q magazine's Top 50 Albums of 2010[32]
• #1 - Triple J Listener's Top 10 Albums[33]
• #2 - Billboard's Top 10 Albums of 2010[34]
• #2 - Magnet's Top 20 Albums of 2010[35]
• #2 - NME's Top 75 Albums of 2010[36]
• #2 - Relevant Magazine's Top 10 Albums of 2010[37]
• #2 - Stereogum's Top 50 Albums of 2010[38]
• #2 - Time's Top 10 Albums of 2010[39]
• #2 - Under the Radar's Top 50 Albums of 2010[40]
• #3 - Spin's 40 Best Albums of 2010[41]
• #4 - MTV's 20 Best Albums of 2010[42]
• #4 - Rolling Stone's 30 Best Albums of 2010[43]
• #7 - Paste Magazine's 50 Best Albums of 2010[44]
• #9 - American Songwriter's Top 50 Albums of 2010[45]
• #11 - Drowned in Sound's Albums of the Year[46]
• #11 - Pitchfork Media's Top 50 Albums of 2010[47]
• #21 - Rough Trade Shops's Albums of the Year (UK)[48]
• Glide Magazine's Top 20 Albums of 2010[49]
• NPR's 50 Favorite Albums of 2010[50]

Too bad for that shit master, unlistenable really...

[lucey]

Originally Posted by West0n

[/LIST]Too bad for that shit master, unlistenable really...

Awards and sound quality do not necessarily equate. Awards and sales over 1 or 10 or 20 years do not equate at all. Raging Bull didn't win the Oscar that year for Best Picture, but it's the best movie. This is common in all the arts/awards cycles. Sometimes timeless quality wins, sometimes it's more about trend and momentary tastes.

"Brothers" was mastered to sound timeless, the mixing and music is cool. "The Suburbs" was mixed to be cool and mastered with a mindset of cool, but not an ear to timeless sound quality.
There is such a thing as Objective good as well as Subjective good when it comes to music. That's why there are mastering engineers, to balance them out. In the case of The Suburbs, all the weight in on the cool factor, but that means the timeless appeal, which can widen the audience and broaden the fanbase to new places, is not there.

The sales of the two strategies in these modern releases is clear already, and in time I'll bet will be even more clear. Suburbs released July 6th, lowered to 3.99 and the band took no mechanicals. Sold 152,000 that first week.
Grammy week, sold 17,000 as the Best Record with all that TV time.
Since then 10,000 7,900 6,500.

Brothers released May 18th, so a little sooner, and did 72,000
Sold 15,000 Grammy week with no TV time at all.
Since then 12,000 10,000 10,000.

Sales to date:
Suburbs 578,000 Brothers 672,000.

Each week Brothers is still over 10,000. Suburbs has hot flashes at release time and grammy week, then fades. In 10 years? Or 20? No doubt the gap will be much wider. Why? Because it's trendy but people are not telling their friends about it. Brothers on the other hand is making it's way to a wider and wider audience by word or mouth, with or without PR pops, because the mastering is not in the way of the music.

[ben_allison]

Originally Posted by lucey

Each week Brothers is still over 10,000. Suburbs has hot flashes at release time and grammy week, then fades. In 10 years? Or 20? No doubt the gap will be much wider.

Backstreet Boys' Millenium sold more than all Radiohead albums combined, more than all Hendrix albums combined, more than etc etc.

Sales have nothing to do with staying power, timelessness, impact, or inspiration for the next generation of artists... even less so at the time of release.

As you said, Raging Bull didn't take best picture... what something does, or doesn't do, in its own time, is no gauge of its enduring quality. There's no way to know until it's given time to endure... or not.

[frott]

Originally Posted by lucey

Awards and sound quality do not necessarily equate. Awards and sales over 1 or 10 or 20 years do not equate at all. Raging Bull didn't win the Oscar that year for Best Picture, but it's the best movie. This is common in all the arts/awards cycles. Sometimes timeless quality wins, sometimes it's more about trend and momentary tastes.

"Brothers" was mastered to sound timeless, the mixing and music is cool. "The Suburbs" was mixed to be cool and mastered with a mindset of cool, but not an ear to timeless sound quality.
There is such a thing as Objective good as well as Subjective good when it comes to music. That's why there are mastering engineers, to balance them out. In the case of The Suburbs, all the weight in on the cool factor, but that means the timeless appeal, which can widen the audience and broaden the fanbase to new places, is not there.

The sales of the two strategies in these modern releases is clear already, and in time I'll bet will be even more clear. Suburbs released July 6th, lowered to 3.99 and the band took no mechanicals. Sold 152,000 that first week.
Grammy week, sold 17,000 as the Best Record with all that TV time.
Since then 10,000 7,900 6,500.

Brothers released May 18th, so a little sooner, and did 72,000
Sold 15,000 Grammy week with no TV time at all.
Since then 12,000 10,000 10,000.

Sales to date:
Suburbs 578,000 Brothers 672,000.

Each week Brothers is still over 10,000. Suburbs has hot flashes at release time and grammy week, then fades. In 10 years? Or 20? No doubt the gap will be much wider. Why? Because it's trendy but people are not telling their friends about it. Brothers on the other hand is making it's way to a wider and wider audience by word or mouth, with or without PR pops, because the mastering is not in the way of the music.

Objective good? fuuck

Just say "you prefer it." You'll sound a lot less ridiculous.

I personally don't like the black keys as a concept, their songs, their mimicry of an old style without much innovation. Of course they're going to go for that specific recording style, of course they're much more pedestrian and safe as a music act.

Nothing wrong with any of that, just like there's nothing wrong with what arcade fire do.

But yes, you should convince arcade fire to master, mix and arrange their songs like the black keys so that they're more objectively good.

[jordanvoth]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

The album is horrid content wise.

Hipster shlock, just like spoon, okkervil river, so on and so forth.

theyve jumped the shark.

THANK YOU! These guys won a bunch of Juno's last night. HORRID! Just a bunch of pretentious *********s writing terrible music.

[West0n]

Originally Posted by lucey

Each week Brothers is still over 10,000. Suburbs has hot flashes at release time and grammy week, then fades. In 10 years? Or 20? No doubt the gap will be much wider. Why? Because it's trendy but people are not telling their friends about it. Brothers on the other hand is making it's way to a wider and wider audience by word or mouth, with or without PR pops, because the mastering is not in the way of the music.

I'm not sure what Brothers has to do with this. I think they are both great bands, with great records, doing really great things right now. Every record sells in a different way. Your conclusion was that they both sold about 600,000 and are within 15% of eachother. Relevance?

Originally Posted by lucey

There is such a thing as Objective good as well as Subjective good when it comes to music. That's why there are mastering engineers, to balance them out. In the case of The Suburbs, all the weight in on the cool factor, but that means the timeless appeal, which can widen the audience and broaden the fanbase to new places, is not there..

Is.. that.. why there are mastering engineers? Interesting,.. I don't think there is much if anything about music that isn't subjective, even though people have a habit of stating opinions as though they are facts. I love the sound of Brothers, by the sounds of it so do you, and there is a thread around here somewhere with people hating the sound of that as well. Are they wrong because you say so?

Originally Posted by lucey

I'm OTOH repulsed by the tone of it all, the vocalist, the cheesey beats, the lack of clarity in a pop setting, the lameness to it all... / ...Musically, lyrically, technically, emotionally, what's the draw? I'd describe it as 'ignorable wallpaper'...

Throughout your posts in this thread you have shown your disdain for this record and the band quite clearly. Do you think that It's really a sonic issue for you? Are you that.. 'Masterey' that, It's the only way you can evaluate a record? If the record were flawed sonically as you say, wouldn't the awards and sales further illustrate strength in the material? It's perfectly fine not to like something, or to not understand what the appeal might be in it for someone else. It's a bit naive on the other hand to assume what you think of something must reflect other peoples experience with it.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by frott

But yes, you should convince arcade fire to master, mix and arrange their songs like the black keys so that they're more objectively good.

You didn't read what I said with clarity. Arrange and mix is not the problem and none of my business, as that's always subjective. Yet mastering is where the subjective meets the objective.

Objective good exists, that's why there is mastering. And their mastering sucks. It was (admittedly) all about an idea of what will be cool, but not about listening to the sound of that process.

Originally Posted by West0n

I'm not sure what Brothers has to do with this. I think they are both great bands, with great records, doing really great things right now. Every record sells in a different way. Your conclusion was that they both sold about 600,000 and are within 15% of eachother. Relevance?

They're a good example of two approaches to mastering, each has awards but The Suburbs has more, each has great sales but Brothers has more. If you don't see how the two approaches are trending sales wise, I can't help you any further. Time will tell, it's pointless to argue now.

I've stated my opinion: The Suburbs is great music and bad mastering that MAY be limiting to it's appeal.

[Masterer]

Yikes!

Someone needs more attention for the one record he has done that anyone has ever heard of.

There are records that people like that are not called "Brothers".

Let it go man.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Masterer

Someone needs more attention for the one record he has done that anyone has ever heard of.

Every Heard of Sami Yusuf? You should have ... you and your buddies at The Firm lost the job to me. His sales dwarf both of these records. How about OAR? Ever heard of them? I could go on and on, but that WOULD be bragging.

We are talking about different mastering approaches on two modern and successful releases. Fair game. Absolutely.

This is a mastering board, not your soapbox to promote your friends at The Firm and insult those of us as good or better.

[Masterer]

Originally Posted by lucey

Every Heard of Sami Yusuf? You should have ... Sterling lost the job to me. His sales dwarf both of these records. How about OAR? Ever heard of them? I could go on and on, but that WOULD be bragging.

This is a mastering board, not your soapbox to promote your firm, so I'm talking about mastering approaches on two modern and successful releases. Fair game.

Yeah, see this is a great example of what I'm talking about.

It's good to see that your lack of understanding of the concept of irony is completely bulletproof.

You'll always have your good friend the internet to keep you company bro.

Post on!!

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Masterer

Yeah, see this is a great example of what I'm talking about.

It's good to see that your lack of understanding of the concept of irony is completely bulletproof.

You insult me as way to promote yourself and your peers at The Firm and it's my fault for commenting on a thread where I have first hand knowledge? That's "ironic" don't you think?

How many times do we post on records where we're guessing what was the motivation? I know the motivation on Brothers, and the motivation on The Suburbs is also well documented. A good conversation, without you.

[OldTimey1]

OAR sucks sooooooooo bad! They are the BREAD of Gen X. in 10 years kids will find the records in their parents iPad 10.0 and be like, "wtf is this garbage?"

[Masterer]

Originally Posted by lucey

You insult me as way to promote yourself and your peers at The Firm and it's my fault for commenting on a thread where I have first hand knowledge? That's "ironic" don't you think?

How many times do we post on records where we're guessing what was the motivation? I know the motivation on Brothers, and the motivation on The Suburbs is also well documented. A good conversation, without you.

It's true that I love to promote myself and my peers. I kinda liked The Firm back in the day. The production seems a bit "'80's" now but those guys could really play.

I can't believe that you would suggest that any conversation without me could be "good".

[Eli Resnick]

Originally Posted by spice house

Personally I can't believe esperanza and this band won grammys. I mean since when were they about the music?

But yeah sometimes the comments on this board frighten me

That's a lot of hate in three sentences. Rather than insult your fellow engineers and some of the most successful artists in rock and jazz music today, you might try to learn something or start some meaningful debate about what parts of whose asthetics you disagree with.

As another jazz double bassist, I happen to be very impressed with Esperanza Spalding's technique and creativity. The way she crafts call-and-response dialogues between her voice and her bass is something we all could learn from.

The Arcade Fire play some terrific rock music with really good arrangements. Live, their combination of vintage organs, multiple drumsets, multiple violins and eight people running around and dancing takes great rock material and builds it into something that most rock bands since the end of the glam era don't have a clue about: entertainment.

As for mastering through vinyl, I'm not sure it's the best decision for the sound. I like this new album. But Funeral has a special place in my heart that would be hard to top. If fifteen mastering engineers in this thread agree that this might be because Funeral was more carefully mixed and mastered to preserve a balance between frequencies, I'm willing to try to learn something from that insight.

[jeff_free69]

Originally Posted by Eli Resnick

That's a lot of hate in three sentences.

As another jazz double bassist, I happen to be very impressed with Esperanza Spalding's technique and creativity. The way she crafts call-and-response dialogues between her voice and her bass is something we all could learn from.

Dunno for sure but, I think you're misinterpreting this. I read it in a way that's on the same page with you. That it's a good thing that something of substance won for a change.

[vai777]

Both records (Brothers and The Suburbs) sound like crap...in fact nothing since late 96/97ish has sounded good...PERIOD.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by vai777

Both records (Brothers and The Suburbs) sound like crap...in fact nothing since late 96/97ish has sounded good...PERIOD.

Fair enough ... everyone gets a vote. Yet it's rather hard to stop time and fashion from my desk chair. But skipping all that ... what did you really like pre 96/97?

[vai777]

Originally Posted by lucey

Fair enough ... everyone gets a vote. Yet it's rather hard to stop time and fashion from my desk chair. But skipping all that ... what did you really like pre 96/97?

My top 25 of all time....not in order

Jagged Little Pill - Alanis Morissette
Undertow - Tool
Big Generator - Yes
No Jacket Required - Phil Collins
Blind Melon - Blind Melon
Pornograffitti - Extreme
King For A Day - Faith No More
Kick - INXS
Night and Day - Joe Jackson
October Rust - Type O Negative
Concentration - Machines of Loving Grace
Black Album - Metallica
Diesel and Dust - Midnight Oil
The Bliss Album - P.M. Dawn
Cleansing - Prong
Empty Glass - Pete Townshend
Happy? Public Image Limited
Blood Sugar Sex Magic - RHCP
Rage Against the Machine - RATM
Power Windows - Rush
Jimmy Olsens Blues - Spin Doctors
Dulcinea - Toad the Wet Sprocket
Boston - Boston
Siamese Dream - Smashing Pumpkins
Floodland - Sisters of Mercy

[Eli Resnick]

Originally Posted by jeff_free69

Dunno for sure but, I think you're misinterpreting this. I read it in a way that's on the same page with you. That it's a good thing that something of substance won for a change.

Ahhh. Brilliant.

In that case... Hooray for the Grammys for picking two good artists!!

Arcade Fire may not be mastering engineers, but they're certainly serious musicians who are willing to experiment in pursuit of better sounds and sounds that are meaningful in the context of what they're trying to say.

WHoever said above that they're talking about the suburbs in the '80s rather than today probably hit the nail on the head as far as why they'd go from tape to vinyl to digital. They're playing those media as instruments.

Or maybe they're just manic. I mean, when I saw them, two of them worked together to smash a drum for the length of an entire song. There wasn't much left of it by the end. But the show was awesome.