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#31
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
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Originally Posted by Ari-M. View Post
no no read the article more carefully, also look at the entire product line

only the upper tier model is $350 (which accounts for a very small percentage of the overall product line sales)

not saying that the beats account for more sales than the iPOD, that would be absurd....

but they do represent a slice of consumer playback options

I personally didn't like them, and wouldn't own a pair...they felt cheaply made

I do think they show a current trend for spectral response though
So it's even less than that? Not a large majority then...

I totally think the real reason they sell is because of the name.

Call them Monster Headphones MH350-H charge $350 and around that many people will buy them.
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#32
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
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Dr Dre Beats Headphones

I think u two are both right.
There are working gears (like genelec or dt880pro /hd650) and there are gears for checking (like ns10m or the heAdphone u had mentioned. In fact, good engineer will often ends with various version and check them all through each sets.
The goal is not to hit a grand slam but hitting a good batting average in various system.
Because it's what most boss-A&R will ask for.
#33
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
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Dr Dre Beats Headphones

I own the cheaper over-ear phones, and they were pretty good for checking if I overdid the low end. I say "were" because the head band snapped 2 weeks ago while I was trying to put them on. It was interesting to learn them, as a point of reference, but I probably paid way too much for what they are.
#34
28th September 2010
Old 28th September 2010
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I own the Beats Studios... they're great headphones and don't colour the music too much with drastic EQ curves. Parts of the bass sound a little muddy, and the high mids seem dominant for some reason.

Very consumer because of the look, price and the noise-cancelling system (which, by the way is great) but they're worth something at least.
I wouldn't trust them for mixes, although I use them as a number 5 in the line of mix-tests.
#35
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by api2500 View Post
So it's even less than that? Not a large majority then...

I totally think the real reason they sell is because of the name.

Call them Monster Headphones MH350-H charge $350 and around that many people will buy them.


no it's substantially more units sold

the lower priced beats (there is an entire line) out sell the $350 model

my guess is that the actual number of units sold in the product line (based on a few articles) is more towards the 600,000-750,000 mark

of course that is nowhere near the sales of iPOD systems, so obviously the iPOD does represent a more average playback experience....but it doesn't mean that the beats aren't a consumer trend....I still think they represent a "consumer" spectral curve....

they are where things are going...

I still won't own a pair, because the name accounts for 40% (if not more) of their MSRP

they are very flimsy feeling....I would trust them on a studio floor...

I still think the sony MDR-v6 represents the best selling headphone of all time (studio use), could be wrong about that

I am 100% happy with my Sennheiser HD-600's....I tried the HD-650's and the HD-800's and they didn't represent anything more "accurate" IMO, than the HD-600

HD-600 on a Bryston 2bLP is going to be my reference for a LOOOONG time to come....

I would, however like to keep listening to other options....it can never hurt

my guess is that the beats are a fad, they won't last....like most consumer fads

I think they do represent a valid consumer spectral curve in today's market though....I don't think they should be totally discounted or ignored
#36
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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I think the smile curve will be with us for a long time, but I think the Beats sneeringly arrogant one will be keeping the sane ones laughing at those who are stupid enough to buy them.

I think the weighting is more 60% name. They're made like Skullcandy (i.e. shizen, though tbh, they'll out last the Beats), they're overpriced, they aren't to my tastes (though the relevance of that is debatable) and certainly don't warrant repeated mix-checking.

My idea of somebody who swears by the Beats is the kind of arrogant hip hip pretender (there are some out there, believe it or not) who gets why you system check mixes, but so up his own bottom that not only does he think the Beats actually rock but also thinks his songs sound amazing regardless or not they really are.

Consumer? By definition yes, but the wrong kind of consumer I aim for, or even the kind of consumer I'd want to strike up a conversation with.
#37
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by api2500 View Post
but also thinks his songs sound amazing regardless or not they really are.
Altec "Voice of the Theater"

Urei "time aligned" monitors

JBL 4430

yamaha ns-10's

Genelec 1031's

"Beats" by Dr. Dre

see a trend?

funny that the altecs probably had the most "neutral" high/mid band

are things really getting better? or just cheaper?

#38
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by api2500 View Post
I think the smile curve will be with us for a long time, but I think the Beats sneeringly arrogant one will be keeping the sane ones laughing at those who are stupid enough to buy them.

I think the weighting is more 60% name. They're made like Skullcandy (i.e. shizen, though tbh, they'll out last the Beats), they're overpriced, they aren't to my tastes (though the relevance of that is debatable) and certainly don't warrant repeated mix-checking.

My idea of somebody who swears by the Beats is the kind of arrogant hip hip pretender (there are some out there, believe it or not) who gets why you system check mixes, but so up his own bottom that not only does he think the Beats actually rock but also thinks his songs sound amazing regardless or not they really are.

Consumer? By definition yes, but the wrong kind of consumer I aim for, or even the kind of consumer I'd want to strike up a conversation with.
Fair enough, but I think this headphone.com graph was tested, and not simply submitted, which shows a lot of people are acting on preconceptions without giving the headphones a proper shot.
It's not a massively drastic curve for a consumer headphone.

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#39
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Dr Dre Beats Headphones

Came across the Dre phones and DBeats while looking for something else ... the headphones are not special at all, but I bought the dbeats in ears with phone button. Had been using the $80 Apple earbuds to keep the iPhone away from the ole head ... and the dbeats are far better. They're heavy, and the buds are too big, but the frequency response is worth the hassle. Nice low end, no major peaks ... calls never jump out and bite in the 3k range.
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Spiral Groove - Studio One - a truly useful nearfield mixing speaker
#40
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari-M. View Post
Altec "Voice of the Theater"

Urei "time aligned" monitors

JBL 4430

yamaha ns-10's

Genelec 1031's

"Beats" by Dr. Dre

see a trend?

funny that the altecs probably had the most "neutral" high/mid band

are things really getting better? or just cheaper?

No, no I don't. Elaborate?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul. View Post
Fair enough, but I think this headphone.com graph was tested, and not simply submitted, which shows a lot of people are acting on preconceptions without giving the headphones a proper shot.
It's not a massively drastic curve for a consumer headphone.

Lets be honest, any preconceptions (if there were any) are it's own fault.

But I have to sell these in my day job and I do know what they sound like and I do not like them.

If it were permissible to wear open-backed headphones in public I seriously would.
#41
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by api2500 View Post
No, no I don't. Elaborate?




Lets be honest, any preconceptions (if there were any) are it's own fault.

But I have to sell these in my day job and I do know what they sound like and I do not like them.

If it were permissible to wear open-backed headphones in public I seriously would.
Once again - fair enough. I don't think they're worth hat they cost RRP and I wouldn't have bought them if they weren't discounted from the RRP, but it woul have been hard to find as comfortable an alternative, with the noise cancelation and clarity. They obviously are designed to be consumer, and I feel they've met that pretty well. They've obviously made a tonne out of these and the other versions of their headphones.
What's your opinion of other Monster products? Are their very expensive in-ears any good? I've heard them, but with nothing that I know too well, so couldn't make a final judgement. They did sound like the clearest in-ears I've ever heard, though... I believe these were called 'Gold' or something.

And here's a graph comparing the Beats to 2 more pairs of consumer headphones which are more expensive. The peak at 1.9k-ish seems to be the most drastic thing about the Beats.
#42
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul. View Post
Once again - fair enough. I don't think they're worth hat they cost RRP and I wouldn't have bought them if they weren't discounted from the RRP, but it woul have been hard to find as comfortable an alternative, with the noise cancelation and clarity. They obviously are designed to be consumer, and I feel they've met that pretty well. They've obviously made a tonne out of these and the other versions of their headphones.
What's your opinion of other Monster products? Are their very expensive in-ears any good? I've heard them, but with nothing that I know too well, so couldn't make a final judgement. They did sound like the clearest in-ears I've ever heard, though... I believe these were called 'Gold' or something.
The Lady Gaga's are probably the best looking earbuds, but sonically, the bass is outrageous... Like seriously... But they're much more realistically priced and I get them.

The Bose Noise cancellation is by far superior and they're built much much better. You feel that your holding technology in your hands rather than some cheapo knockoff.

I'm very wary of referring to graphs and graphs only but...
.

Personally, I'd stick with more trusted companies for my headphone tastes, but tbh, I prefer a very natural tonality in my headphone choice. The Beats and the Gaga's just don't satisfy me...
#43
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
  #43
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The Beats headphones are ok, overpriced at best. They actually were Dr Dre's idea though and he went to several companies including the one I work for to pitch them. They have been very sucessful. They're just headphones and cheap earbuds with a pretty snazzy business plan....and there's even more company's piggybacking on the concept AKG/Quincy Jones etc....

Concerning quantities 100k+ for a high-priced headphone is a lot. Some of the AKG stuff stuff is <20k annually. In fact most consumer audio products are less than 100k annual, usually 50k worldwide for speakers and stuff like that. Some Lexicon stuff is less than 10k annual, and with high-end Mark Levinson you're talking hundreds, not thousands. Cheap earbuds would sell exponentially more, especially with the popularity of the iPod.
#44
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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I love my ath-m50s for everything! I heard the dr.dre ones and checked the build. Not horrible but in that price range I think there are better ones. It depends on what you're using them for. Most of the people I know using them saw them high priced at best buy and thought they were like a BOSE kind of thing.. A high fi best of the best consumer product..Hardly. I bought my ath-m50s for $120 and I would pay a lot more for them gladly. I use them at work all the time for editing and restoration because we don't have monitors there...paid for themselves in a day. Probably will get a few more pairs for the studio when I can.

F
#45
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azone View Post
The Beats headphones are ok, overpriced at best. They actually were Dr Dre's idea though and he went to several companies including the one I work for to pitch them. They have been very sucessful. They're just headphones and cheap earbuds with a pretty snazzy business plan....and there's even more company's piggybacking on the concept AKG/Quincy Jones etc....

Concerning quantities 100k+ for a high-priced headphone is a lot. Some of the AKG stuff stuff is <20k annually. In fact most consumer audio products are less than 100k annual, usually 50k worldwide for speakers and stuff like that. Some Lexicon stuff is less than 10k annual, and with high-end Mark Levinson you're talking hundreds, not thousands. Cheap earbuds would sell exponentially more, especially with the popularity of the iPod.
Lexicons aren't aimed at the same audience that the Beats are. The Beats are (and there's no denying) aimed at people who are easily swayed by gimmicks, names and labels. I doubt anyone tested any other models before buying them.

Who said they were Dr Dre's idea? Seeing as Monster have also released Lady Gaga headphones (and there seems to be more in the mix) they're not on the same label, I'm pretty sure that's sales speak...

AKG must shift more than 20k a year. Every single studio and so many educational facilities need them every year and it is easily 20k per quarter in the UK and they have a lot more models out than Monster do...

Where is your research coming from? I can't find much sales info online...
#46
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
  #46
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Quote:
The Lady Gaga's are probably the best looking earbuds, but sonically, the bass is outrageous
What kind of meat are the Lady Gaga headphones made from?
#47
30th September 2010
Old 30th September 2010
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Quote:
Who said they were Dr Dre's idea?
He set up a meeting and came a couple years ago to pitch them, wanted to join with a well-known consumer electronics company. I'm almost certain he contacted other companies too.
Quote:
Where is your research coming from?
I work for the company, engineering & project management.
#48
30th September 2010
Old 30th September 2010
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I just had to coment @ TS. the monster products...monster beats, beats by dre, beats audio, are the most overhyped overpriced garbage. any inexperienced kid who fits the demographic (dr dre fans, hip hop producers, source magazine, BET) is going to buy them and be impressed with the bass. they just dont know what good studio headphones are supossed to do or what they should cost. dr dre should be ashamed for ruining all those young producers and taking their money. there are kids out there who dont have anyone teaching them and they always buy the whackest shit. check the magazine ad where they tell you their closed backs sound exactly like highend studio monitors. then, in the same ad, they tell you its important to mix hiphop in headphones cause thats your target audience.

and on the earbuds check the highend shure's or the maudio IE30

edit: I see a monster rep face to face. tell me this, why is it impossible to find ANY specs at all on the soundcard that comes with any beats audio laptop either on your website or HP's website. I can look at any other laptop and read that its 24bit/96k. on yours all you say is "its the best technology ever created, it sounds incredible" great marketing but you should be giving me frequency response with +/- Db, THD %, impedence etc. something. you dont even have bitrate/samplerate. its probably an off-the-shelf opamp. did you only expect urbanized young adults to buy your stuff without questioning a word you say. "I want people to hear things the way I hear them" dr dre. I'm sure he is using better equipment than this.
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#49
30th September 2010
Old 30th September 2010
  #49
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This is all very interesting stuff...

Dre as a producer seems to be a bit more into sound quality than most..I read an interview with Mike Elizondo, his primary bassist and they said they were doing analog tape up until the Eminem Show. Coupled with the fact that he prefers to use studio musicians over samples, I'd say Dre represents SQ a bit more than others in the industry.

However, as we all know, the marketing is what sells anything in big #s. If you want to be known as a true champion of quality, you will compromise financially...no 2 ways about it.

Some of us know Dre in this fashion but most of the market will just associate him with hip hop and the bass. Highly unlikely for a neutral or tonally accurate set of cans to come in this manner.

BTW, "eatyourguitar"....while I'm not defending Monster in this scenario, I'd say that specs aren't everything....and what looks "better" might be misleading.

I highly doubt that's the case in this specific example, but I know some esoteric high end gear that feels the need to say "good to 20khz" in their literature even though it doesn't.....people associate too much with #s these days.

Sound reproduction is equal part engineering and art, not 100% engineering....this coming from a P.E.

#50
1st October 2010
Old 1st October 2010
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Bought it from apple store because I wondered why it's more expensive than my HD600 and AKG 240s. Played couple songs through apogee Ensemble: it's like a punch in the face. Absolutely Piece of S**T. Not even on par with good consumer grade cans. Much worse than my buddy's bose triport. I wish I had that afternoon back.
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#51
1st October 2010
Old 1st October 2010
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I am comforted by the sense that a lot of this forum has over the Beats.

Let's be honest, we all know they sell to ill informed vain people, which would be fine, except they have bad idealistic taste.

I'm sure Dr Dre is still doing as well as he used to... But by saying he tracks to tape. A lot of studios do (though admittedly not as many) and there are some fantastic studios that don't. Sound quality is his records does not mean he makes good headphones. For the market I think they're trash, for the industry I think they're worse. But that is only my opinion and I'm sure some bass freq (see what I did there) is gonna go crazy for them, but I know for a fact I'm not gonna ask their feedback on critical listening.

Btw, there are the specs at Headphone.con on the Build Your Own Graphs, they have THD (I think) and Freq Response and all sorts of other stuff...
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#52
1st October 2010
Old 1st October 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by api2500 View Post
Let's be honest, we all know they sell to ill informed vain people, which would be fine, except they have bad idealistic taste....

But that is only my opinion and...
My thoughts on these cans:

They suck. They don't compare to the cans I use for reference checking my work at all, but while we're being honest: I don't let my personal opinions get in the way of reality, which is: A lot of people listen to music over these things and if you're serious about getting audio work, you'd be smart to acknowledge what people are using, regardless of your personal feelings about it.
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#53
2nd October 2010
Old 2nd October 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco View Post
My thoughts on these cans:

They suck. They don't compare to the cans I use for reference checking my work at all, but while we're being honest: I don't let my personal opinions get in the way of reality, which is: A lot of people listen to music over these things and if you're serious about getting audio work, you'd be smart to acknowledge what people are using, regardless of your personal feelings about it.
yup....I have a pair of "junk" HP laptop speakers sitting right next to my bowers & wilkins and krk's

I don't personally "like" any of those 3 speakers....but they represent 3 slices of the consumer market...

for head phones I have Sony mdr-v6/7506's and a pair of v-moda iPOD earbuds (the kind they sell at costco ; ) ...)

all of the above are so far from the ideal speaker....let's be honest, some of the stuff that has crossed over from the hi-fi markets (focal, dynaudio, etc...) offer far more accurate and enjoyable listening experiences....but who are you working for?

last time I checked an esoteric speaker with a neutral response and dynamic finesse, is so far removed from anything you find on the shelf of a big box store or consumers ears
#54
2nd October 2010
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I just picked up the Shure SRH-440 headphones about a month ago.

Stronger than the MDR-V6 all around. For about $100 you can't go wrong.
#55
23rd December 2012
Old 23rd December 2012
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I've tried beats and thought the sound was way too coloured. In my opinion there out there for the ppl who love the trends, buy into names and don't listen to music in the same way as most ppl might do on this forum. Massive fashion statement it seems. What a shame.
#56
24th December 2012
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Most people instinctively gravitate toward "bass-heavy" sound because that is exactly what the average ear evolved over time to filter out.

The difference between most folks and myself is how I achieve that bass compensation. I study and emulate various equal-loudness curves(from F-M on up to the current standard: ISO226:2003) via various eqs. When applied to relatively flat headphones or speakers, I have enjoyed mostly satisfactory results.
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#57
24th December 2012
Old 24th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
Most people instinctively gravitate toward "bass-heavy" sound because that is exactly what the average ear evolved over time to filter out.

The difference between most folks and myself is how I achieve that bass compensation. I study and emulate various equal-loudness curves(from F-M on up to the current standard: ISO226:2003) via various eqs. When applied to relatively flat headphones or speakers, I have enjoyed mostly satisfactory results.
Same here. I always EQ my headphones because it sounds more natural to boost the bass slightly. Bass is completely different compared to loudspeakers or subs. Because we can actually feel waves lower than our ears like to transduce, the difference is shocking. After a while, heavy bass in headphones can be fatiguing and makes you want to take them off. But the bass boost is necessary to properly hear the full spectrum, when compared to elevated bass response of most listening systems.

If you think EQing the bass in headphones is necessary like I do, you would be well off to know what your headphones are capable of. I bought mine from headphone.com because they had very informative tests done on each model. So, to boost the bass and NOT reduce the longevity of the headphones, you cannot boost lower than what the drivers themselves are capable of. Sealed cups are naturally elevated in the bass, but may require adjusting to taste. Open cups are benefited well by a bass boost, but no lower than the driver can take, and lower than that frequency a lowcut filter is in order. Also, this is the most important part, for any boost made, a subsiquent gain reduction is to be applied on the channel. Some headphones cannot handle the excursion so this small detail is really important. OF course, you must know how much power they are capable of taking, which can be a trial and error process.
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24th December 2012
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I tried some at Heathrow once. I was less than impressed to be honest. For the money there are loads better out there. Nice build..very chunky...and very smiley face sonically. Smiley, like Monster are where they take your money...and Dre when he got his sponsership money.

Buy some Sennheiser HD 600 or 650 ,...miles better.
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#59
24th December 2012
Old 24th December 2012
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Is this a serious thread? You've gotta be kidding me. Why is this in the mastering forum?
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24th December 2012
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Quote:
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Is this a serious thread? You've gotta be kidding me. Why is this in the mastering forum?
Why not...? It's a valid question, and a little different to "how loud can i make my mixes?"
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