Better than Waves S1?

[Jesse Graffam]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Jesse, please go back and read some of your incredible claims. You're sure you can build a successful analog circuit though Blumlein didn't, and Gerzon didn't think it could work after trying himself. You say MS processing solves the problem and ask me, "What is it / who was it that gave you the idea that a Blumlein shuffler solves whatever problem you are thinking of?" I guess you imagine I've presumed too much?

I'm not claiming that Blumlein's shuffler solves or doesn't solve anything. Here and in the PMs I sent you, I was simply telling you the technical details of what it is doing, complete with very simple math to help you understand this. Single digit addition and subtraction.

So either you didn't "get it" (I think you did, or you didn't read PMs that I spent hours on which would be even more insulting), or you're just trolling me at this point. I've been careful not to say anything about the effectiveness of Blumlein's shuffler, in solving the problem it was made to solve, which is discussed way more than well enough in his original patent. I even just mentioned this in my last post, and now you're trying to use the idea that I have against me? That smells funny.

Read his patent, understand the problem the Blumlein shuffler was made to fix, build one and test it yourself... or just let it go man. Cos you're not saying that I am wrong or that I'm making crazy claims. You're saying that Alan Blumlein is wrong and making crazy claims, clearly without even understanding the device.

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Many brilliant people and brilliant ideas went unknown because communication skills weren't at the same level. This acoustic recording problem, though ubiquitous, has been largely ignored because recordists adopted workarounds and because potential solution vendors don't understand it. Could you be one? If anyone doubts there's confusion they should read Gerzon's own comment, the one Daniel quoted earlier in the thread.

Blumlein's shuffler only attempts to address one of many problems.

If that really was Gerzon's comment (I didn't notice any references/footnotes), then there's the possibilities that his understanding of this extremely simple circuit is wrong (not likely), or that he was trying to appease people that wanted it to sound complicated and just fed them a line about it that sounded intelligent so they would go away....

OR....

I think it's a good time to add that Gerzon was selling his own products. It's not completely unheard of for someone's marketing to not necessarily reflect what's actually going on under the hood.

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

If you want to convince others that you've got a solution just waiting for acceptance, please try to understand why it may be hard for some of us to swallow. It's not for a lack of wanting. People want a solution. I think you could try to convince Waves to make an S2, or find another plugin vendor to implement your ideas. If there were several commercial solutions recordists and mastering houses would have more options than now.

I've already made my own, in the first 15 minutes of coding. Then I spent about 1.5 days working on the more advanced idea that I showed you the screenshot of.

Anyways, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I haven't put forth any of my own ideas. Only Alan Blumlein's. Your lack of understanding is giving me credit for nothing.

Secondly... Waves... wow. I don't even recommend their products to people because of how just plain wrong their policies are. I personally know someone that was forced to buy the Diamond bundle twice because Waves own authentication process screwed up, and they wouldn't help him out. I wouldn't do business with them in a million years.

If I ever release any plugins, it's going to be free, x-platform, and more likely than not... OSS.

--

Lastly... I'll again recommend that you start a new topic and describe the problem that you are thinking of, and the ideas you have to possibly fix it. Preferably with audio samples. It's merely my best guess that a Blumlein shuffler has nothing to do with your problem, because you still haven't described what you're referencing (the problem).

[MichaelPatrick]

Jesse, thanks for a stimulating debate. It's been fun and instructive.

[MicJunkie]

These have some great things to offer, pick and choose what you like.

[diogo_c]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Jesse, thanks for a stimulating debate. It's been fun and instructive.

+1...but it made me feel like reading a ton of stuff to really understand what's going on here!

[Jesse Graffam]

Originally Posted by diogo_c

+1...but it made me feel like reading a ton of stuff to really understand what's going on here!

I have a bunch more Gerzon lined up for ye' ol' PDF viewer, when I have time.

Also just finally checked out NuGen Stereoizer page and I'm thinking I gotta try the demo, and push some special test tones through it.

[diogo_c]

Originally Posted by Jesse Graffam

I have a bunch more Gerzon lined up for ye' ol' PDF viewer, when I have time.

Please let us when you do it!

[LFF]

Originally Posted by Jesse Graffam

In fact, I already thanked you once, for at least indirectly giving me that AWESOME idea for that VST plugin I just made that I showed you the screenshot of. I've already shared the prototype with a bunch of my processing/dsp and recording/mastering buddies, and so far everyone's freakin out about it. So... at least something good came out of this conversation for me personally.

Do share!!

[sammyp]

Originally Posted by Karim Sinno

The shuffler includes assymetry and rotation, which I personally haven't seen anywhere else. But for stereo width, and for elliptical style EQing, I would recommend try out some of the brainworx stuff, Mono maker does elliptical EQ, and stereo width does exactly what it says. Those features can be found in bx_control, and bx_digital which also contains a full blown M/S Mastering grade EQ that sounds mind-blowing!

Plus 1 for the brainworks......I use the free one and it works great for a bit if width

[KJandKT]

I really like the S1. I was playing with this plugin and also the Flux Stereo Tools one the other day....

Probably most of you know this but I thought I would share what I learned the other day just in case someone didn't know how to do the following...

If you put in your plugin chain (S1-Q10, S1) you have an instant M/S EQ for your mix (The EQ can be any from Q2-Q10). It is very powerful and easy. You can independently adjust the volume of the M and S channels (L is M I believe and R would be S) and also separately EQ the M and S channels doing this.

With Flux, if you make an identical copy of your mix and put it on another track (making sure that they both start at the exact same sample time), you can insert the Flux Stereo Tools on both channels, having one act as the M and one as the S so that you can increase the volume of either independently.

Blessings!

KJ