API 2500 tips 'n tricks

[dhiltonlittle]

Originally Posted by andychamp

I'm trying to find the post about patching one side of the 2500 into the next. Might have been by UBK, but the search didn't turn up anything useful.
Anyone got a link or can explain that trick?

This is from UBK..Not sure if it is what you were looking for.

Someone was asking me about the l/r link on the 2500 in another thread, and my ramblings reminded me of a trick I use all the time and figured I'd share here, I imagine some guys will find this as cool as I do.

The 2500 has one set of controls, but there's a very cool way to use the two channels serially and have separate control over the amount of GR you get on each channel.

This is how you set it up:

1) Patch channel 1 into channel 2

2) Set L/R to Independent

3) Engage Feed Back mode

4) Engage Manual Output Gain, set to 0

5) Set your meters to view Gain Reduction


The combination of #2 & #3, coupled with the way #4 feeds the energy back into the detector, is the secret spice here.

Try this:

1) Send a mono drum buss, a good balance of kick snare and room, into channel 1. Out of 1 into 2.

2) Set your ratio low, start with 2:1. Set your attack to 10ms and your release wherever you like it. Maybe 50, maybe 400, maybe 1.5, depends on the thickness/distortion factor you want (or don't).

3) Use the threshold to get some squeeze on channel 1. Note how at some point channel 2 starts reacting too, but probably less.

4) Goose the output gain knob; what should happen is the GR in channel 2 will increase at a greater rate than channel 1.

This is where the fun begins. Essentially the Threshold is threshold control for channel 1, and Gain is the threshold control for #2 (that's not actually what's going on, but the effect is roughly the same).

So grab both the threshold and gain knobs, and move them around simultaneously, one up the other down, or both up, or both down. Listen to the ways that the transient gets shaped differently by having the different channels do their thing in greater and lesser proportions.

The amount of control you have over the sound here is phenomenal. Don't forget to play with attack and ratio's.

Serial compression rules, especially on vocals.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[andychamp]

Originally Posted by dhiltonlittle

This is from UBK..Not sure if it is what you were looking for.(...)

That's the one, thanks a lot!

[dhiltonlittle]

No problem!

[u b k]

Originally Posted by hisbluness

Its either 0-2db reduction or 10-20db. I just cant dial it in softly enough to get medium gainreduction (~4db)

That is most definitely not the way a 2500 is supposed to behave; if I were you I'd be on the phone to my dealer lickety split.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[reymusic]

Guys,
I just purchased the Api 2500 for my bus drum and also for my personal mastering work..I record my mix between -10 and leave some headroom for mastering..when i add the Api to the mastering chain and push the gain button over 2 db the needle is already hitting the +3,0 section..i feel if i go higher I'm clipping everything above...any ideas whats the best output and input level i should hit on the Api do have a great sound? do i need another unit to have better output level going to my daw before printing? to reach the right amount of level on the api 2500 the needle stays constantly on the +3/0 section.. just purchased it so I'm not too comfortable with the unit yet..
Thanks

[Razik]

Check the settings on the VU meter, it could possibly be set on GR, there are 3 settings GR, OUT and IN.

Razik Mastering

[Filthrill]

Slutz, looking for some feedback (no pun intended). I mostly use "old" mode on the 2500 on the stereo bus of my mixes cuz to me "new" mode can sound really bright sometimes. But a lot of times I end up also mastering a fair amount of songs that I mix. Of course to me "old" mode most of the time wins the race in mastering too for same reasons as during mixing. Real quick I just want to say I don't care what anybody claims, "new" mode (I'm talking stereo bus) doesn't sound like SSL stereo bus comps, Alan Smart comps, or any comp similar to those flavors. Just doesn't spank it the same way those do. That's why I usually end up using "old" mode because I can get more of the tone I'm looking for even tho it's feedback mode.

My question is: does anybody see an issue with me using "old" mode twice (once in mixing & another during mastering) on a song? "Old" mode sounds a lil darker to me so using it twice always has me wondering if I should invest in another comp to prevent too much of the same flavor or a song ending up too dark which is not always apparent right away but listening to the same song months down the road might make me notice that it's too dark? I know some of u might say to just use my ears blah blah blah but looking for any thoughts here.

Anyone?

[misjah]

selling mine if anybody interested....its in classifieds and ebay

[ak23]

The 2500 is a great compressor.
But the sidechain filters (in med or looud mode) are cutting the lows which is ok, but boosting the highs
which i find is not useful very often.
Because then the hihats controlling the groove too much.
Anyone modfied this or build an external side/chain input/output ?

greetings

Andreas

[Huntley Miller]

Originally Posted by ak23

The 2500 is a great compressor.
But the sidechain filters (in med or looud mode) are cutting the lows which is ok, but boosting the highs
which i find is not useful very often.
Because then the hihats controlling the groove too much.
Anyone modfied this or build an external side/chain input/output ?

greetings

Andreas

The sidechain filter does not cut lows, it changes what the VCA sees. It already has external sidechain inputs on the back.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by ak23

Anyone modfied this or build an external side/chain input/output ?

No need to modify anything, the 2500 already has external sidechain i/o.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[Mr. Bars]

Originally Posted by LD Productions

software here... don't use it often enough to justify a unit yet. if i did want a good M/S unit, any suggestions peeps?

I used DAV SIPP. Very very clean sounding hardware solution for mastering application. Highly recommend. Now work with SPL M/S Master - also good.

[Filthrill]

Originally Posted by misjah

selling mine if anybody interested....its in classifieds and ebay

Hey misjah, I'm just curious as to why you are selling your unit? Did you not like it or is there a different reason?

[Filthrill]

Okay, let me rephrase my previous question about "old" mode on the 2500. Does anyone out there wish there was a mode on it that would sound kind of in between "old" & "new"?

[paintitblack]

Would it be called 30? Or midlife?

[andychamp]

Originally Posted by Filthrill

Okay, let me rephrase my previous question about "old" mode on the 2500. Does anyone out there wish there was a mode on it that would sound kind of in between "old" & "new"?

What for?

[Filthrill]

Originally Posted by andychamp

What for?

A different mode that wouldn't sound quite as dark as OLD mode but not quite as bright & clean as NEW mode either. I'm talking about mainly for mastering, not on subgroups like drums or anything. I feel that the 2 modes are sometimes too different & wish there was something that can get somewhere in between. Other than that I think the unit is an amazing tool & would never part with it. I think the unit is too versatile but w/ holes in between.

[andychamp]

Dunno, I never felt the two modes sounded any different in terms of tone (bright vs. dark). And how could they, it's just the sidechain that feeds from a different source.
OTOH, the way they grab and react differ greatly to my ears.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by andychamp

Dunno, I never felt the two modes sounded any different in terms of tone (bright vs. dark). And how could they, it's just the sidechain that feeds from a different source.

What happens is that the feed forward topology is waayyy faster, which causes a different transient shape and, as a result, a different tonal balance.

To my ears, New mode distorts the leading edge of the transient more than Old mode, which makes New sound brighter/more aggressive. Also, the bass emphasis on Old is 60-80Hz, as soon as you switch to new the emphasis moves up to 100-120.

Those two tonal shifts (brightness on top, emphasis on bottom) are the primary reason I switch between the two modes, and why I choose one over the other for a given source or song.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[Filthrill]

Originally Posted by u b k

What happens is that the feed forward topology is waayyy faster, which causes a different transient shape and, as a result, a different tonal balance.

To my ears, New mode distorts the leading edge of the transient more than Old mode, which makes New sound brighter/more aggressive. Also, the bass emphasis on Old is 60-80Hz, as soon as you switch to new the emphasis moves up to 100-120.

Those two tonal shifts (brightness on top, emphasis on bottom) are the primary reason I switch between the two modes, and why I choose one over the other for a given source or song.


Gregory Scott - ubk

This would explain it. Thank you.

[heyman]

Just used it on bass tonight... Yes...!

Thick... Thick... Thick...

New mode... Makeup up gain enabled..

[aof21]

Great thread guys thanks for the info. I use the plugin version. Dunno how close it is to the hardware, but the plugin is fantastic. I just got the Elysia Alpha plugin as well. I find the API 2500 is better when I want something a little more aggressive and the Alpha's better for light settings to smooth things out.

[Filthrill]

Originally Posted by aof21

Great thread guys thanks for the info. I use the plugin version. Dunno how close it is to the hardware, but the plugin is fantastic. I just got the Elysia Alpha plugin as well. I find the API 2500 is better when I want something a little more aggressive and the Alpha's better for light settings to smooth things out.

Noone has compared the plugin w/ the hardware unit more than me!! Just kidding...well maybe not really. I've done it quite a few times & I'm really obsessive trust me. I can tell u that they both feel really good. When my hardware unit was down on a few occasions I was forced to replace the hardware I had inserted on a few mixes w/ the plugin & it worked. I did prints w/ the hardware when it was fixed just to compare & the hardware has an xtra level of warmth & a pinch more depth than the plugin. Not necessarily better tho. The plugin & the hardware unit are closer sounding to each other than the SSL plugin & the SSL comp on the SSL console.

[Filthrill]

Hey Slutz! Me again.

Anyone on here know any big-time mixers (based on common knowledge or acticles, etc.) whose 1st preference for a compressor on their stereo bus is the API 2500? Please feel free to share any info & the resource for this information.

Also, feel free to share info about any well-known mastering guys that are still talking the API up & prefer it mostly in their mastering.

[J_Flux]

Originally Posted by Filthrill

Hey Slutz! Me again.

Anyone on here know any big-time mixers (based on common knowledge or acticles, etc.) whose 1st preference for a compressor on their stereo bus is the API 2500? Please feel free to share any info & the resource for this information.

Also, feel free to share info about any well-known mastering guys that are still talking the API up & prefer it mostly in their mastering.

I don't know about 'well known' but I know of at least 2 pro ME's here in the UK that use them. Anyone know of anyone else?

[Twerk]

Originally Posted by Filthrill

Also, feel free to share info about any well-known mastering guys that are still talking the API up & prefer it mostly in their mastering.

The API 2500 is a very common item in a lot of high end mastering studios. And just like the Manley Vari-Mu, it's either loved, or hated depending on ones own personal taste. And taste is a funny thing, isn't it? I've toyed with the idea of adding one but the Foote Control Systems P3S ME ended up being the VCA comp I always dreamed about.

Taylor Deupree, Matthew Gray, and Dave McNair all use a 2500, and are all great mastering engineers.

[ak23]

Originally Posted by Huntley Miller

The sidechain filter does not cut lows, it changes what the VCA sees. It already has external sidechain inputs on the back.

i meant the sidechain filter btw. !

[Huntley Miller]

Is bypass considered a tip or a trick?

[Twerk]

Originally Posted by Huntley Miller

Is bypass considered a tip or a trick?

Do you still have your 2500, Huntley?

[mcsnare]

I still use and love the 2500. Been in my chain for about 10 years now. Not that it makes any difference to anybody, but I think David Glasser and I were one of the first folks to use one in a mastering context.

Dave