Sontec / ITI users ?

[Paul EQ]

...

[Ben F]

Generally leave it on, in bypass when away from the studio. It's on a UPS.

The Op-Amps are more stable on the re issues, but they are available.

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by Ben F

Generally leave it on, in bypass when away from the studio. It's on a UPS.

The Op-Amps are more stable on the re issues, but they are available.

Also generally left on here, primarily for the reason of laziness, not longevity though...

[Serif Sound]

Someone recently posted somewhere Walter Sear's .pdf, "Leave It On." He pretty thoroughly explained why he turns off all his equipment when not in use. Reads logical(ly) to me. However, if you have your own green generator and are made of cash, why not leave it on?


Andrew

[Jerry Tubb]

I leave my Sontec 432 on 24/7/365.

Seems quite happy, I may need to recap the power supply soon.

But I turn off the tube gear and DAWs.

JT

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by Serif Sound

Someone recently posted somewhere Walter Sear's .pdf, "Leave It On." He pretty thoroughly explained why he turns off all his equipment when not in use. Reads logical(ly) to me. However, if you have your own green generator and are made of cash, why not leave it on?


Andrew

The pdf can be read at http://www.searsound.com/pdf/leaveiton.pdf
I'm in complete agreement with Walter - and I've seen more equipment go down because it was left on all night than I ever have seen it fail when turned off and on. So - my MEP-250EX get's turned off after every session along with everything else I use in my studio.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Gravity8058]

Leeev Onnn

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by Gravity8058

Leeev Onnn

Notice how the light bulb never burns out when you are just sitting there.

Or that the large format console always seems to have some sort of trouble when the power comes back on.

In applications that have serious reliability needs (like the phone company) there are extreme measures taken to get everything up to temperature and never turn it off.

The Sontec should be put on a UPS and kept at a nominal temp of between 70.001 and 70.0015 degrees F.


DC

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by dcollins

Notice how the light bulb never burns out when you are just sitting there.

I had a CL1b go on the fritz the other day on power up. (hopefully it's just a fuse).

I'd be curious what the difference in cost for electricity would be per month - leaving a room on vs turning it off?

[Virtalahde]

Electricity is used too much in our world, and while it's obviously mostly industrial use, I do my part to cut the consumption. So I power off every evening. Powering up is always a stress, but if something breaks up, I'll fix it.

At home, everything is behind a switchable extension cord and nothing stays on standby.

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by dcollins

Notice how the light bulb never burns out when you are just sitting there.

In what ways does the build quality of a light bulb resemble that of an equalizer?
As soon as folks realize that Walter Sear is smarter than the rest of us I think the better off we all are.

Or that the large format console always seems to have some sort of trouble when the power comes back on.

Or all the times I discovered the Neve DTC at Europadisk in full out glitch mode when walking in the morning after it had been left on all night (after years of it being left on all night) .

In applications that have serious reliability needs (like the phone company) there are extreme measures taken to get everything up to temperature and never turn it off.

Except the phone companies a 24/7 service. And how many of us are able to have our processor racks in a refrigerated room? Do you put on your parka and your clean room overalls before you walk into your studio?

If you're running a night shift like a radio station I can understand the practice of not ever turning off gear. Otherwise - sorry I ain't buying it - even from you DC!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

As soon as folks realize that Walter Sear is smarter than the rest of us I think the better off we all are.

Walter's a great guy. I had the chance to talk with him for a few days while doing sessions at his place a while back. He refuses to buy into the whole digital/cd format and is a hardcore analog/vinyl guy (that's besides the point). I do believe though that there are good and not so good reasons to power on or off and it's not so cut and dry or wrong or right.

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

In what ways does the build quality of a light bulb resemble that of an equalizer?

As I've stated every time this conversation comes up, my experience wrt gear failure mirrors DC's - it's only ever happened during power cycling.

As soon as folks realize that Walter Sear is smarter than the rest of us I think the better off we all are.

Wow, seriously? Arguing from authority even?

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood

As I've stated every time this conversation comes up, my experience wrt gear failure mirrors DC's - it's only ever happened during power cycling.

Definitely not my experience with computers.

Wow, seriously? Arguing from authority even?

I was kind of playing around a little -
but - I was also arguing in regards to someone who has run a successful and very excellently maintained studio (with a large selection of very valuable gear) for way longer than anyone who posts here.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

I was also arguing in regards to someone who has run a successful and very excellently maintained studio (with a large selection of very valuable gear) for way longer than anyone who posts here.

Well, my former employer (Ardent Studios) have been around 40+ years and they don't power down anything unless there's a long term of non-use. Consoles are on 24/7/365. I'd suggest the net experience in that building is equal to most any place on the planet, so I guess there's your counter argument from authority.

[Brad Blackwood]

Back on topic - I always kept both of my Sontecs on and running on dedicated UPS's as replacement opamps aren't easy to come by. Never had either one fail on me.

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood

Well, my former employer (Ardent Studios) have been around 40+ years and they don't power down anything unless there's a long term of non-use. Consoles are on 24/7/365. I'd suggest the net experience in that building is equal to most any place on the planet, so I guess there's your counter argument from authority.

Except the folks who run it aren't as smart as Walter Sear.

One thing he's definitely right about in his article in people do get emotional about the subject. Anyway - one of my mentors was "leave it on" guy as well - so I'm perfectly willing to rebel "from authority" if it makes sense.

Obviously - folks can do what they like in this regards!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[hams]

I've had gear fail spontaneously a few times, complete with plumes of smoke. Not during power cycling, but in the middle of regular use. I'm assuming a fuse would have eventually gone off somewhere and everything would have been fine, but I was glad all the same to be here to shut everything off.

I also have gear I'd be scared to leave running 24/7 purely because of the heat it generates, i.e. Lavry converters.

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

If you're running a night shift like a radio station I can understand the practice of not ever turning off gear. Otherwise - sorry I ain't buying it - even from you DC!

The idea of power/temperature cycling reducing reliability is not controversial in other industries. In fact, it's not uncommon to try to "break" a new design by randomly turning it on/off at various times to determine an 'infant mortality' failure mode.............



DC

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by dcollins

The idea of power/temperature cycling reducing reliability is not controversial in other industries. In fact, it's not uncommon to try to "break" a new design by randomly turning it on/off at various times to determine an 'infant mortality' failure mode.............

That's understood and I don't debate you on that at all. But to compare a light bulb to a piece of gear which I'd sincerely hope has a voltage regulated psu seems a little bit disingenuous to me.

Again - I agree that powering electronics on and off could be possibly detrimental to them in some cases - but this has to be weighed against the hours of heat a component lives through (definitely not good for the lifetime of capacitors at the very least - and since mastering gear tends to have no fans in them or on them also gives it potentially higher temperature than it would be otherwise), unnecessary use of electricity, and increased fire hazard.

Sometimes I think heat can be a greater factor in shortening a components lifespan than power cycling. I've also witnessed equipment damaged from undergoing a brown out that happened over night when it was unused. And I've definitely seen computer hard drives that had been constantly on give up the ghost way before the same model drives that were not always on did.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

That's understood and I don't debate you on that at all. But to compare a light bulb to a piece of gear which I'd sincerely hope has a voltage regulated psu seems a little bit disingenuous to me.

Then I recommend turning your gear on and off several times per hour.

Sometimes I think heat can be a greater factor in shortening a components lifespan than power cycling. I've also witnessed equipment damaged from undergoing a brown out that happened over night when it was unused.

That is actually somewhat controversial. Obviously things like electrolytic caps are aged by heat, but the conventional wisdom that there is a direct relationship between transistor life and degrees didn't hold up like they thought it would. Tony Kordyban's book "Hot Air Rises and Heat Sinks" has more on this for the terminally nerdy.

And I've definitely seen computer hard drives that had been constantly on give up the ghost way before the same model drives that were not always on did.

This test by Google may be of interest:

Google Research Publication: Failure Trends in a Large Disk Drive Population

DC

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by dcollins

This test by Google may be of interest:

Google Research Publication: Failure Trends in a Large Disk Drive Population

DC

Nice link. In a brief scan I noted they didn't catalog failures due to Hitachi just plain ol' sucking though.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Ben F]

The only equipment that gets left on here is the Sontec 432, Prism ADA-8 (Lavry Gold gets too hot), ATC mains and the Crookwood.

[turtlerock]

back in the day when sontecs we new - the ones i used were left on 24/7 for about 10 years but we worked two shifts in the cutting room so there was little point shutting it down

when vinyl slowed down it turned into one shift per day and everything was turned off at night - cost cutting etc

i think all the opamp catastrophies happened in the years we left them on 24/7

- go figure

i tend to leave all my stuff on while we are working long days on ongoing projects ( usual procedure )
when we have a clear deck or a long weekend etc i turn them all off out of habit ( cost cutting save the planet etc etc )

[Strobian]

Originally Posted by Virtalahde

Electricity is used too much in our world, and while it's obviously mostly industrial use, I do my part to cut the consumption. So I power off every evening.

At home, everything is behind a switchable extension cord and nothing stays on standby.

Think of what you could do if you shut your studio down permanently

[Virtalahde]

Originally Posted by Strobian

Think of what you could do if you shut your studio down permanently

Cucumber farming?

[da goose]

I shut of everything when the work is done in the studio, turn it on about half an hour/hour before i start to work for everything to settle in and warm-up.
I have a switch box with seperate switches for the computer, amps, comp/eq's etc so that i only have to switch these on for full power-on.
Don't talk me into something that that is not good to switch everything in with a couple of switches because it's really OK to do this and REALLY won't harm your equipment!
I do this for years (over 20 years) without any problems..

Just like vitaladhe says, saving the environment starts with yourself...

[Serif Sound]

When I scrolled to the last page, I saw that the case study on computer hard drives found that, for the first 2 years, power cycling had no correlation with failure. By the third year, the failure mode might go up over a whopping 2%, but the correlation is suspect because the increased power cycling might simply be due to trouble-shooting an already-troubled part (one not troubled by the power cycling...)! Hardly a smoking gun.

'lytics are dessicated and ultimately destroyed by steady heating.

Power supplies in well-designed gear come up slowly, unlike a light bulb, which goes from 0-60W in a fraction of a second.

EveAnna says to turn off her tubes if they won't be used for 3 or 4 hours.

Nelson Pass says that to turn off his amp when not in use will make it last 20 years instead of 10.

Leaving gear on when the facility is unattended is a fire hazard.

As Walter writes, pests such as mice will nest in a warm, dry place. Then they will chew cables.

Also, being there to spot the location of the emission of magic smoke could enable you to help the tech repair the unit.

Finally, until we have zero footprint green power, we are part of the pollution problem.

If you leave your new HS-2000's on for the next 20 years, they will start to sound like the constantly-cooked HS-1000 nowadays does. They both have the same personality when new (and cold). By leaving it on, you accelerate the decrepitude of the division between the doped junctions to end up with a mellower than intended high end. Ok, it might also be quantum tunneling...

Entwistle. He's just not what he used to be.

Do like Mrs. Doubtfire suggests and let the sheets cool down.

Andrew

[inlinenl]

always turn of everything, but first all in by-pass ...
on some projects I leave the tubes on over-night ... the tubetech settles for a little better/stable noise level, only for albums which run over two days for the analogue pass ..

[da goose]

Originally Posted by Serif Sound

When I scrolled to the last page, I saw that the case study on computer hard drives found that, for the first 2 years, power cycling had no correlation with failure. By the third year, the failure mode might go up over a whopping 2%, but the correlation is suspect because the increased power cycling might simply be due to trouble-shooting an already-troubled part (one not troubled by the power cycling...)! Hardly a smoking gun.

'lytics are dessicated and ultimately destroyed by steady heating.

Power supplies in well-designed gear come up slowly, unlike a light bulb, which goes from 0-60W in a fraction of a second.

EveAnna says to turn off her tubes if they won't be used for 3 or 4 hours.

Nelson Pass says that to turn off his amp when not in use will make it last 20 years instead of 10.

Leaving gear on when the facility is unattended is a fire hazard.

As Walter writes, pests such as mice will nest in a warm, dry place. Then they will chew cables.

Also, being there to spot the location of the emission of magic smoke could enable you to help the tech repair the unit.

Finally, until we have zero footprint green power, we are part of the pollution problem.

If you leave your new HS-2000's on for the next 20 years, they will start to sound like the constantly-cooked HS-1000 nowadays does. They both have the same personality when new (and cold). By leaving it on, you accelerate the decrepitude of the division between the doped junctions to end up with a mellower than intended high end. Ok, it might also be quantum tunneling...

Entwistle. He's just not what he used to be.

Do like Mrs. Doubtfire suggests and let the sheets cool down.

Andrew

Amen!

@Wim:
why do you bypass them before switching off? Or do you mean you reset everything to zero?