Is digital mastering "wrong"?

[Curtis Day]

Like using mastering plugin's and such. I'm going to be looking for someone to master an album for me soon and I want to know if the digital way is wrong so I know what to avoid. Any advise?

[SafeandSound]

Hi there, from the majority of posts here you will find most M.E.'s use a combination of analogue and digital equipment.

Analogue mastering, digital mastering or a combo of both is not wrong.

What is wrong is the incorrect application of any of these tools.

I have to say that whilst I use analogue devices for mastering I am very pleased with the quality of digital tools at the moment and find them offering benefits such as, immediacy of use, very clean when needed, as much colour as needed (through use of emulations), accuracy of tracking between L/R channels, simple recall ability, facilities which cannot be replicated in analogue equipment without outlays of huge sums of money, often easier routing for complex settings. Like all equipment the skill in part, is selecting the right tools as some sound far superior to others. (and sometimes sound better in certain bands of the spectrum i.e. EQ's)

It is arguable (and will certainly be so on this thread, standby for the onslaught) that analogue offers a certain something which is unreplaceable.

I have a few analogue colour boxes (valve compressors) that I use when I feel I need/want to or if there is a specific request.

cheers

[Caput]

Originally Posted by Curtis Day

Like using mastering plugin's and such. I'm going to be looking for someone to master an album for me soon and I want to know if the digital way is wrong so I know what to avoid. Any advise?

The very best and the very worst ME's use digital - and digital plug-ins - so that cannot be your best criterion for choice.

Best advice from long experience is to avoid boasters about low prices and make sure who you pick knows your kind of music.

I trust age and other than ME music experience too.


SB

[Table Of Tone]

I personally prefer to use an analog mastering chain but there are ME's out there that get good results with plugs or even better, a mixture of plugs and analog!

[Darius van H]

Guys, get a room.

Back OnT:

This is bit like asking: is french-kissing your grandmother wrong?

[aleatoric]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

This is bit like asking: is french-kissing your grandmother wrong?

But it feels so right!!!

In all seriousness I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with digital mastering. My ears and clients agree.

This is a very opinionated (and personal) subject though that almost always turns into a shit storm on this forum.

I'll exit now before the cyber fighting gets real bloody!

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

This is bit like asking: is french-kissing your grandmother wrong?

I mastered an album all digital this week. I feel so dirty now.

[Joe_caithness]

Although in about 4 days I will be officially "out the box" I have many happy returning clients, who have word of mouthed me up to their mates, who have got stuff mastered by me, so go figure.

[SafeandSound]

I find for example that one of my valve compressors can smear the sounds (glue) the image and whole mix from top to bottom of the spectrum where another does things mainly to the bottom and mids.

I will use certain plugins if I want other gelling effects or saturation of a specific band because the outboard cannot do it. I know which hardware/ emulations have more odd harmonics, more even harmonics and an equal amount of both.

Whilst colour can be just the ticket sometimes, it is used probably less than 30pct of the work I do. I tend to think of colour either immediately when I hear a mix or at a much later stage after EQ'ing, vocal problems (sibilence/level) imaging, level, depends on what sticks out on first listen.

In fact I tend to think less of in or out of the box and just pick what I need to, to go where I feel is right, not so much a choice of hardware or software for eithers sake.

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering

I mastered an album all digital this week. I feel so dirty now.

Maybe we need a support group? I guess it's like 1 out of 10 or even 20 that I do all in the digital domain. I've spent a lot of time getting the D/A/D chain to my liking, but every so often all digital is better. I just put together a whole separate computer to run UA plugins so who knows?


DC

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by dcollins

Maybe we need a support group?

I saw an interview with Dave McN. on youtube the other day where he publically admitted to the same atrocity. And he said that right in front of poor little Sontec and Millennia.

I just put together a whole separate computer to run UA plugins so who knows?

Oh. Now I see what this is about Mr. Manley... It's all conspiracy and marketing!

[surflounge]

not wrong, but keep your methods secret if it works!

[Riccardo]

I use whatever the mix needs. Last album, today (Sunday ) I used Epure (digital eq) in conbination with the Fairman (tubes), so here you go. IMO there is nothing wrong in using digital only, analogue only or a combination of both.

Another example is the Elysia Mpressor. When working totally or partially in analogue I use the hardware, if I am working totally digital I use the TDM (plug in).

I haven't had the time to dig deep into other digital compressors (Alchemist and Solera when time permits)

I only have very brief experiences wirh the Weiss hardware compressor and of course think they are top notch.

Again a digital only chain is fine IMO

[Darwin James]

I personally WANT the sonic characteristic that outboard tube gear can put on my masters. I'd be really disappointed to find out my ME used only plugs.

[ARIEL]

Originally Posted by Darwin James

I personally WANT the sonic characteristic that outboard tube gear can put on my masters. I'd be really disappointed to find out my ME used only plugs.

But what if the master you received sounded brilliant but was all plug ins ??

[aleatoric]

Originally Posted by ARIEL

But what if the master you received sounded brilliant but was all plug ins ??

Impossible!

[Darwin James]

Originally Posted by ARIEL

But what if the master you received sounded brilliant but was all plug ins ??

This is a great question. And one I find difficult to answer. I just have a strong feeling a great ME will have much better odds and a preferable output, while achieving brilliance with their outboard. I would rather have the original coloration from gear as opposed to emulations. Guess that's the whole debate however. No I don't know all or many of the answers in fact.

[Ben F]

Some people have the experience to hear the difference, some people don't. If you don't hear the difference then stop trying to convince those who can that digital emulations are 'the same'- if they were we would all be selling our racks of analogue, probably for the same amount of money (or more) that they were worth 10 years ago. Like a classic car it doesn't age just gets better.

It's that simple.

[aleatoric]

Originally Posted by Ben F

Some people have the experience to hear the difference, some people don't. If you don't hear the difference then stop trying to convince those who can that digital emulations are 'the same'- if they were we would all be selling our racks of analogue, probably for the same amount of money (or more) that they were worth 10 years ago. Like a classic car it doesn't age just gets better.

It's that simple.

I don't think anyone brought up emulations sounding the same.

I personally do not use any emulations of real life hardware unit.

It amazes me how defensive some people get over just the idea of working digitally and how quick they are to make broad statements regarding listening skills and experience.

I personally have worked with a Sontec, Massive Passive, Vari-Mu's, Masalec EQ, Masalec Comp, Millenia EQ (Frosell modded), API 2500, API 5500, Avalon 2077, etc. Monitored on Duntechs, B&W and Lipinski's. I was lucky enough to work under some amazing and well known ME's.

While I was employed as a production assistant at a multi-room mastering studio in NYC there was an engineer there with around 20 years experience and tons of major label hits. He had a Vari-Mu, Masalec comp, Avalon 2055 and Massive Passive in his rack. He absolutely loved to work completely digitally (plugins).

Please keep in mind that not everyone thinks and hears like you and it does not necessarily come down to a matter of "experience".

[arf]

Originally Posted by Darwin James

This is a great question. And one I find difficult to answer. I just have a strong feeling a great ME will have much better odds and a preferable output, while achieving brilliance with their outboard. I would rather have the original coloration from gear as opposed to emulations. Guess that's the whole debate however. No I don't know all or many of the answers in fact.

Darwin,

Do you know for a fact that the master that BG did for your album was not all digital?

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by aleatoric

I personally have worked with a Sontec, Massive Passive, Vari-Mu's, Masalec EQ, Masalec Comp, Millenia EQ (Frosell modded), API 2500, API 5500, Avalon 2077, etc. Monitored on Duntechs, B&W and Lipinski's. I was lucky enough to work under some amazing and well known ME's.

Must be disappointing to work on the Dynaudio BM6as then...

I work 'all digital' as well if I have to. But I have the choice of analogue or digital, and think that others that don't are more defensive.

[aleatoric]

Originally Posted by Ben F

Must be disappointing to work on the Dynaudio BM6as then...

Not really, they work for me at the moment, I know them well.

That being said I would love to upgrade at some point when I have the budget to do so.

Sweet little negative jab there though.

[SafeandSound]

Some people have the experience to hear the difference, some people don't. If you don't hear the difference then stop trying to convince those who can that digital emulations are 'the same'- if they were we would all be selling our racks of analogue, probably for the same amount of money (or more) that they were worth 10 years ago. Like a classic car it doesn't age just gets better.

It's that simple.

Thinking it's simple is not correct IMO.

There is a wide number of reasons this might be the case.

statements such as...

I find for example that one of my valve compressors can smear the sounds (glue) the image and whole mix from top to bottom of the spectrum where another does things mainly to the bottom and mids.

I will use certain plugins if I want other gelling effects or saturation of a specific band because the outboard cannot do it. I know which hardware/ emulations have more odd harmonics, more even harmonics and an equal amount of both.

....demonstrate that the differences are heard (and can be analysed), both hardware and software have their place in the mastering studio. You need to have the objectivity to be able to choose the tool that sounds best not the one that is analog because it is the sole choice.

[Ben F]

Fair enough, points taken. I should really take price into consideration. For 'low cost mastering' it isn't really worth the investment in outboard.

I've tried but still haven't found any software that can make an all digital ITB mix sound more like a record. Still sounds fake to me using a digital emulation of tube gear or tape. And my clients expect mastering to make a difference- and are happy to pay a decent amount for that. Would happily use all plugs on a really well mixed track, but in my experience they are far and few between.

[UnderTow]

I hear an echo.

Alistair

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by SafeandSound

demonstrate that the differences are heard (and can be analysed), both hardware and software have their place in the mastering studio. You need to have the objectivity to be able to choose the tool that sounds best not the one that is analog because it is the so.

As I've already said, I have most of the current top notch crop of digital plug-ins and Weiss gear also.

We have the BM6as in the client lounge.

[SafeandSound]

It seems some people are unable to partake in discussion without personal
attacks, a sure sign of a weak position.

I find it crass.

Proof is always in the pudding, and applicable at every level.

[soulstudios]

Originally Posted by Curtis Day

I want to know if the digital way is wrong so I know what to avoid.

It's not. Have fun.
m@

[tresperros]

Originally Posted by Curtis Day

Like using mastering plugin's and such. I'm going to be looking for someone to master an album for me soon and I want to know if the digital way is wrong so I know what to avoid. Any advise?

it's not, as many ppl answer already...
ME choose what works for her/him right here right now for that particular piece of music
saying only hardware can do the job is just a blah blah....
but, regarding some color, tube/tape saturation, a REAL THING sounds more real, just IMO

out of topic - I got feeling this forum is very similar to hiphop forum:)
BIG EGOS
BIIIGGG

[aleatoric]

Originally Posted by tresperros

out of topic - I got feeling this forum is very similar to hiphop forum:)