Can Logic be used for Mastering vs Wavelab - probrably not

[8080JP]

I just watched a Wavelab tutorial on YOu Tube and on that program you can highlight one little section and just process that with a De-sser or whatever.

I dont think you can do that with LOGIC

I have mucked around mastering on Logic with just plug-ins on the master stereo bus.=, but not isolate little sections by highlighting them and apply plug-ins to that.

I guess in Logic you could snip the section put it on another track - do something to it and then put it back.

Is this the normal way to do it in Logic

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by 8080JP

I just watched a Wavelab tutorial on YOu Tube and on that program you can highlight one little section and just process that with a De-sser or whatever.

I dont think you can do that with LOGIC

Sure you can.

It's called Bounce-in-Place.

I believe you've posted this question elsewhere. I don't think that's a question particularly related to mastering though.

[8080JP]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Sure you can.

It's called Bounce In Place.

I believe you've posted this question elsewhere. I don't think that's a question particularly related to mastering though.

yep in the Logic forums.

What is Bounce in Place

By the way I am buying your Hit kit 3.

Good sounds - just wondering if their was alot of stacking of bass drums to get your bass drum samples.

Also if alot of compression was used on your bass drum samples therefore I wont need to use my shocking compression techniques


Anyway, is your answer that Logic provides everything needed for mastering a song and maybe an album.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by 8080JP

What is Bounce in Place

It's a way of processing a track (or audio region) with the inserted effect(s) rendered to the audio file. More or less like what you saw in WaveLab, only in Logic Pro you can do more effects at the same time if you like.

By the way I am buying your Hit kit 3.

Good sounds - just wondering if their was alot of stacking of bass drums to get your bass drum samples.

Also if alot of compression was used on your bass drum samples therefore I wont need to use my shocking compression techniques

When you're stacking bass drums you risk actually getting less punch or a phased out bass instead of a fatter kick. Some are stacked (while paying attention to the phase), some are not.

The Hit Kit V3 sounds are pre-processed and ready to use. They do not need any additional processing such as compression. Naturally you can add your own processing if you wish for various reasons.

Anyway, is your answer that Logic provides everything needed for mastering a song and maybe an album.

If you insist on doing the mastering yourself and purely using software, then yes it will.

[TC Custom Audio]

Yup, as others have stated, of course you can. It's just more work.

[Lagerfeldt]

I think there are some benefits too, such as more flexibility and never working on the original file.

I've made a 10 second video that also demonstrates the procedure.

The example shows a section of an audio file being de-essed.

http://www.popmusic.dk/temp/bounce-in-place.mov

[Larry Mal]

What Holger ( I think I remember your name correctly, apologies if not) is saying is likely the best way to do it, my first thought was just to put the de-esser on the track, and use automation to have it be by-passed until you needed it, then turn it on for the problem phrase, and they automate it off.

Not to disagree, just to put forth another option.

[Lagerfeldt]

In a perfect audio world that's the best and easiest option, but unfortunately you would likely get clicks or pops with that method on a source such as a whole mix, no matter what DAW you're using.

Some plug-ins such as Flux and Sonalksis have an internal bypass function (not the DAW plug-in interface bypass button). Using that instead can sometimes eliminate the potential clicks.

If you're using an internal bypass button make sure the plug-in is actually bit-transparent in that mode, i.e. be paranoid.

Regards,

Holger :-)

[tribeofenki]

[8080JP]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I think there are some benefits too, such as more flexibility and never working on the original file.

I've made a 10 second video that also demonstrates the procedure.

The example shows a section of an audio file being de-essed.

http://www.popmusic.dk/temp/bounce-in-place.mov

Unfortunately your link isn't working.

Anyway, I am putting together a compilation of live performances I did 20 years ago - some off cassette tape would you believe, to show my great grandchildren when I hit the bucket.

I thought that Logic 8 might have even been a choice for top end masterers until I saw the Wavelab video.

My method was to place 13 god forbid songs on separate Logic tracks, on top of one another so that it would be easy to scoot from one song to the other, to get a perspective on the volume of the album.

If stems or whatever would be needed then the number of tracks would increase, might end up with 40 tracks opened.

I would use the automation of plug ins to do slight changes needed withing the song.

??Moments within songs where a de-sser are needed then create a problem for me.

I have never experienced using a crossfade in my life so. In my scenario Logic might not give me that option between tracks.

Waveburner only has 2 tracks so stems dont seem possible.

Wonder if Wavelab has multiple tracks for stems.

[Soundseed]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

In a perfect audio world that's the best and easiest option, but unfortunately you would likely get clicks or pops with that method on a source such as a whole mix, no matter what DAW you're using.

Some plug-ins such as Flux and Sonalksis have an internal bypass function (not the DAW plug-in interface bypass button). Using that instead can sometimes eliminate the potential clicks.

If you're using an internal bypass button make sure the plug-in is actually bit-transparent in that mode, i.e. be paranoid.

Regards,

Holger :-)

If you want to avoid using bypass, automate the de-esser threshold to a point where it doesn't trigger for anything, then simply automate the threshold back down/up at the point in the song you want it to work.

Alternatively, for fine control, insert the linear phase eq, and the multiband meter (which only works in stereo - so make sure you are on a stereo track or send the vocal to a stereo aux), then use the meter to identify where the sibillance is most prominent frequency wise; set one of the eq bands to centre on this frequency, then use the Q and gain controls to manually de-ess. When you've fine tuned it, just automate your eq band gain so it dips momentarily at the offending sssssss... This can give much more transparent results.

Of course, if you can do this on the original vocal track, rather than the stereo master then that is the way to go for sure... hopefully not stating the obvious, but de-essing the stereo master introduces the attenuation to everything - i.e a momentary dip which can be audible on hi hats, cymbals, acoustics etc...

Hope this helps
Cheers
Chris

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by 8080JP

Unfortunately your link isn't working.

The link is working fine. It must have been a temporary problem.

I have never experienced using a crossfade in my life so. In my scenario Logic might not give me that option between tracks.

Waveburner only has 2 tracks so stems dont seem possible.

You could easily do that in Logic Pro by using volume automation on the individual tracks, fading out and in on the individual tracks. For true crossfading you need to bounce the audio first and use the crossfade tool on overlapping tracks.

In WaveBurner all you need is 2 tracks as you would simply alternate between the two tracks. You can't have 40 tracks going at the same time though.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by Soundseed

If you want to avoid using bypass, automate the de-esser threshold to a point where it doesn't trigger for anything, then simply automate the threshold back down/up at the point in the song you want it to work.

Yes, that's a good solution. All the more reason to find a plug-in that's bit-transparent when it's active but not processing audio.

Alternatively, for fine control, insert the linear phase eq, and the multiband meter (which only works in stereo - so make sure you are on a stereo track or send the vocal to a stereo aux), then use the meter to identify where the sibillance is most prominent frequency wise; set one of the eq bands to centre on this frequency, then use the Q and gain controls to manually de-ess. When you've fine tuned it, just automate your eq band gain so it dips momentarily at the offending sssssss... This can give much more transparent results.

I find that automating the linear phase EQ is a bit slow due to the CPU intensive nature of the processing, and not fast or precise enough for fast de-essing in mastering. It isn't workflow friendly either as you usually need to do multiple edits before it grabs at the right point in time and frequency.

I prefer good real-time de-essing whether it's a dedicated de-esser or a dynamic EQ (Sonalksis DS-1) or even a multiband compressor.

[csl]

Originally Posted by 8080JP

Wonder if Wavelab has multiple tracks for stems.

Yep, it supports multiple tracks in its 'montage' mode. If I normally have to de-ess a single word or two, I set the track in montage, split the offending sibilance area into its own little clip, and load up a clip-specific de-esser. This way it's non-destructive, and Wavelab will automatically crossfade the joint to avoid pops (and it's fully plugin delay compensated, so it should be sample-accurate regardless of plug latency). Very handy.

[Lagerfeldt]

That's actually exactly what I did in my video example above, only in Logic Pro.

[8080JP]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

That's actually exactly what I did in my video example above, only in Logic Pro.

thanks for all the help! look forward to the hit kit 3

Mastering an album as a hobby is fun and a way to keep out of trouble. I was hoping to do it with some of the stuff pros were using. Pity there is no wavelab or sequoia for Macs.

It would be interesting to know what pro masterers on Macs are using.

It seems that Bob Katz must be a PC man if he is now using Sequoia

[csl]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

That's actually exactly what I did in my video example above, only in Logic Pro.

Cool.

Originally Posted by 8080JP

Pity there is no wavelab or sequoia for Macs.

Yeah, though Wavelab 7 is apparently going to be on Mac too, but it's been in the making for years, so don't hold your breath.

[8080JP]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I think there are some benefits too, such as more flexibility and never working on the original file.

I've made a 10 second video that also demonstrates the procedure.

The example shows a section of an audio file being de-essed.

http://www.popmusic.dk/temp/bounce-in-place.mov

just wondering whether the bounce-in-place is a Logic 9 thing.

I cannot find it in my LOGIC 8

[Lagerfeldt]

Yes, it's Logic 9 only.

[pasarski]

Logic 8: bounce -> check 'add to audio bin' -> drag to track -> right click -> move to recording position (shift command R). Quite fast.

EDIT: Check for clicks and pops, use x-fade if needed!

[tjhooker]

This may not be the correct place for this question but, can someone tell me, Can you Mix down in Logic 8, bounce the mix, then bring the final bounce back into the mastering field of Logic 8 ? or would it be the same to just do some mastering prior to bounce ?
Also, I have at times mixed down from Logic 8 to a Tascam DV-ra1000 , after this process can the stereo track be returned to Logic or other software for mastering?

thanks

[finleysound]

Originally Posted by tjhooker

This may not be the correct place for this question but, can someone tell me, Can you Mix down in Logic 8, bounce the mix, then bring the final bounce back into the mastering field of Logic 8 ? or would it be the same to just do some mastering prior to bounce ?

Yes. I don't know what the "mastering field" in Logic is. Arrange window? At any rate, how you accomplish your mastering in Logic is all about what works for you. Yes, you can "master" your song without bouncing it down to a stereo file. Personally, I find it easier to take off my mixing hat if I bounce the track and import it into a "mastering" template I have created in Logic.

Also, I have at times mixed down from Logic 8 to a Tascam DV-ra1000 , after this process can the stereo track be returned to Logic or other software for mastering?

Yes, but why?

[tjhooker]

I will run the logic mix through some outboard gear to see what overall warmer mixes I can get before printing to a DVD for reference.

Thanks for the info on the issue of importing back to Logic. It appears that when I have tried that, I can only find one file to import not stereo tracks.