Taking the production master from commercial CD?

[Ol' Betsey]

Hi guys,

I'm reissuing a CD and the original masters are long gone.

The pressing plant has said to just send them a copy of the CD and they can work from that.

Less than ideal, I know, but that's really all we've got. Masters tapes gone. CD master gone.

Is there anything I can do to make sure what I send is as error-free as possible?

What would you suggest?

Cheers fellas,

R.

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey

Hi guys,

I'm reissuing a CD and the original masters are long gone.

The pressing plant has said to just send them a copy of the CD and they can work from that.

Less than ideal, I know, but that's really all we've got. Masters tapes gone. CD master gone.

Is there anything I can do to make sure what I send is as error-free as possible?

What would you suggest?

Cheers fellas,

R.

If the original passed BLER then all copies should be exact clones. Nothing to worry about, but for your own piece of mind, have one more listen before sending it to the plant just to make sure everything is alright.

Regards,

[Ol' Betsey]

Cheers Edward,

I'm assuming it passed BLER (whatever that is) originally so I should be fine, you reckon?

Not saying that it does, but what if there was a small scratch or something I couldn't see on the CD but it still played fine, is that OK?

R.

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey

Cheers Edward,

I'm assuming it passed BLER (whatever that is) originally so I should be fine, you reckon?

Not saying that it does, but what if there was a small scratch or something I couldn't see on the CD but it still played fine, is that OK?

R.

Don't worry, cross-interleaved Reed-Solomon code {CIRC} will provide error detection and error correction. If your pits are totally damaged, then you will hear the errors on playback for sure. IF your "scratched" disc passes BLER test, it means that interpolation was good enough to correct those errors.

Regards,

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by Edward_Vinatea

Don't worry, cross-interleaved Reed-Solomon code {CIRC} will provide error detection and error correction. If your pits are totally damaged, then you will hear the errors on playback for sure. IF your "scratched" disc passes BLER test, it means that interpolation was good enough to correct those errors.

Yikes, it's contagious from the other thread. And still wrong.

The OP's best bet is to take the production CD to a mastering house and have them make an error checked image. I guess you can also use Exact Audio Copy for this, as well.

It should be fine.


DC

[MASSIVE Master]

Originally Posted by Edward_Vinatea

If the original passed BLER then all copies should be exact clones.

????

BLER is disc dependent. BLER does NOT copy from one disc to the next. And CIRC is part of the playback system.

That all said - I'm with DC.

[Ol' Betsey]

Cheers guys.

I feel safer sending it to my mastering guy and having him error-check/copy it for me.

Just wanted a quick yay or nay on the whole using a commercial CD as the Master idea.

Thanks again,

R.

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

????

BLER is disc dependent. BLER does NOT copy from one disc to the next.

I never said it did. The reason why I said this:

If the original passed BLER then all copies should be exact clones

I meant that the only CD copy {CD-DA} he is left with, comes from that original master disc he lost and it has supposedly already 'passed' the BLER criteria then, good chances are that this copy is just as good as the original. Sorry if it wasn't clear enough for you.

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by dcollins

I guess you can also use Exact Audio Copy for this, as well.

EAC? I don't think that's a good idea.

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by Edward_Vinatea

EAC? I don't think that's a good idea.

It has worked magic for me in the past with damaged CD's unplayable any other way.


DC

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey

Just wanted a quick yay or nay on the whole using a commercial CD as the Master idea.

You are on a mastering forum, what did you expect they were going to recommend?

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by dcollins

It has worked magic for me in the past with damaged CD's unplayable any other way.

Yes, but I have the feeling that his is just fine.

[Jesse Graffam]

Originally Posted by Edward_Vinatea

Yes, but I have the feeling that his is just fine.

What about a copy of Fred Schneider's self titled CD? I'm sure it passed the error checking before they pressed it for its major label release. So you would also have a feeling that it's just fine right?

Oh by the way, it's so oxidized now that I could probably safely drive my car with it taped over my eyes. And I've owned 4 copies of it, happened to every one. But it should be OK, because the original passed error checking at the plant, right?

</satire>

-J


p.s. i really do own 4 copies of that, none even remotely playable or EAC rip-able, and i probably could drive a car with them over my eyes. CDs do change over time. NONE of them will last forever.

[MrCrowbar]

I'd send one or 2 (redundancy is good) still shrinkwrapped commercial CDs to the plant. This way you can be sure there's no scratches or dust on it because no one has touched the disc yet and the contact with air (with all it's gases, moisture, etc.) is minimized.

I recommend having a image file of the master CD (ISO works fine) on heavily backed up hard drives. You can use RAR compression to get the files size down to about half, put passwords on the file and upload them to an online backup service.

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by uncajesse

What about a copy of Fred Schneider's self titled CD? I'm sure it passed the error checking before they pressed it for its major label release. So you would also have a feeling that it's just fine right?

Oh by the way, it's so oxidized now that I could probably safely drive my car with it taped over my eyes. And I've owned 4 copies of it, happened to every one. But it should be OK, because the original passed error checking at the plant, right?

</satire>

-J


p.s. i really do own 4 copies of that, none even remotely playable or EAC rip-able, and i probably could drive a car with them over my eyes. CDs do change over time. NONE of them will last forever.

Fred Schneider's?

Read OP:

The pressing plant has said to just send them a copy of the CD and they can work from that.

This simply means that presumably he still posses one or a few sealed, maybe unsealed, {who cares} working copies. The plant people know that even though is not really a bit-perfect copy, it is a 'virtual clone' from the original master good enough to read the sectors of data and create a new glass-master from.

[Jesse Graffam]

Originally Posted by Edward_Vinatea

Fred Schneider's?

Read OP: This simply means that presumably he still posses one or a few sealed, maybe unsealed, {who cares} working copies. The plant people know that even though is not really a bit-perfect copy, it is a 'virtual clone' from the original master good enough to read the sectors of data and create a new glass-master from.

I agree. And from my perspective I would rather handle myself (or from OP's perspective have an ME handle) creating that "virtual clone". The suggestion about using EAC, when done properly, I have to agree with, but I am interesting in hearing your take on why you don't agree with that.

Cheers Ed, and happy holidays,
-J

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by uncajesse

I agree. And from my perspective I would rather handle myself (or from OP's perspective have an ME handle) creating that "virtual clone". The suggestion about using EAC, when done properly, I have to agree with, but I am interesting in hearing your take on why you don't agree with that.

Cheers Ed, and happy holidays,
-J

Well, I never had anybody have problems with manufacturing runs where a CD-DA copy was used instead as a master. If you believe in Blackwood's test in the Creating The MASTER COPY (now merged)
thread and even though he tested CD-Rs, you know the CD-DA format is even more durable. The OP wasted his money sending his copy to a ME for assembling a new master. He should have sent that copy straight to the plant to get started with his CD manufacturing. That's my opinion.