Loudness War, Ear fatigue, ear damage, public liability

[8080JP]

Apparently there might be limit imposed on decibel loudness of 85 db or something like that on mp3 players.

I am more concerned about the fatiguing effect form over compressed and limited music.

I do not listen to commercial radio anymore and if I download a modern track, I immediately rebounce it about 3 db less.

If people's hearing is damaged by the loudness war tracks whether played loud or soft (hurt my ears both ways)

who in the future is liable like cigarette companies in the past.

Who will get sued??

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by 8080JP

Apparently there might be limit imposed on decibel loudness of 85 db or something like that on mp3 players.

I am more concerned about the fatiguing effect form over compressed and limited music.

I do not listen to commercial radio anymore and if I download a modern track, I immediately rebounce it about 3 db less.

If people's hearing is damaged by the loudness war tracks whether played loud or soft (hurt my ears both ways)

who in the future is liable like cigarette companies in the past.

Who will get sued??

People will listen to what they wanna listen to!

The loudness war thing has been going on since the first records were being made.
Cutting room guy's would take the cutting head to the limit.
It would be distorting anything and everything in it's path.
It's really nothing new!

I totally agree that all mastering engineers should pull back 3db and we've pretty much all tried doing just that at one time or another.

There will always be one that will seize the opportunity to stay loud in that situation, and that's the trouble!
The labels, clients etc, will nearly always go for the loud guy!
Radio makes it worse and squashes the hell out of it!

Bringing your downloaded tracks down by 3db will not bring back the dynamics that you are wanting to hear.
On the contrary, it will just degrade the signal.

If you really care about how things sound, you should get DAC with a better re-con on it.
That will help a little!

[PatrikT]

Originally Posted by 8080JP

I do not listen to commercial radio anymore and if I download a modern track, I immediately rebounce it about 3 db less.

Why?

Who will get sued??

Who will be the first to actually stop listening to music they do not like and end their personal never-ending traumas about the whole matter?


Regards
Patrik

[8080JP]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

Bringing your downloaded tracks down by 3db will not bring back the dynamics that you are wanting to hear.
On the contrary, it will just degrade the signal.

Yes but the recording does not hurt.

In the article about imposing the 85 db limit, it says that in Europe about 10 million people will now suffer from irreversible hearing loss.

What I believe is that the problem is not so much having the volume up loud but the compression is causing just as much damage.

The idea to lower the sound to 85 db is to stop future litigation

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by 8080JP

Yes but the recording does not hurt.

In the article about imposing the 85 db limit, it says that in Europe about 10 million people will now suffer from irreversible hearing loss.

What I believe is that the problem is not so much having the volume up loud but the compression is causing just as much damage.

The idea to lower the sound to 85 db is to stop future litigation

Have you ever honestly known legislation to do anything right?
I think we both know that they will get the wrong end of the stick and that what they propose, will make things worse!
I has been proven that people who work with ambient noise (factories etc) are more likely to go deaf.

So the idiots trying to impose the 85db limit are actually gonna make things way worse, in the way of dynamics and headroom.
They've got it completely wrong once again!

Who puts these idiots in a position of power?
That's what I wanna know?

People really need to be made responsible for their own actions!
Legislation is simply killing common sense!

[neil456]

Originally Posted by PatrikT

Why?
Who will be the first to actually stop listening to music they do not like and end their personal never-ending traumas about the whole matter?

Why do you think music purchases are down? What's being produced today is not worth the price of a CD. Most will try to fool you into believing that it is music sharing and free download's fault, but a lot of the music is not pleasant to listen to after a few minutes. I've all but given up on Rock and Roll just because its so debilitating to listen to. Really good artists are getting short changed big time.

[Silver Sonya]

Just turn it down.

That's what happens to "loudness war" records. They get played quieter.

- c

[neilwilkes]

Originally Posted by neil456

Why do you think music purchases are down? What's being produced today is not worth the price of a CD. Most will try to fool you into believing that it is music sharing and free download's fault, but a lot of the music is not pleasant to listen to after a few minutes. I've all but given up on Rock and Roll just because its so debilitating to listen to. Really good artists are getting short changed big time.

There is more to it than that.
I read an article in PRS magazine this year stating CD sales were down 31% on previous year, but major label releases were down 34% on the same period.
That's an increase in real terms.
I am personally almost given up on new titles until I have heard them because of the terrible distortions these days. Try either of K T Tunstall's albums - the first is the worst (Eye to the Telescope) which is so bad it cannot be played on any of our stereos here at any volume it is so badly mastered.
The second one is almost as bad.
Moving to downloaders, these fall into 2 categories.
1 - Try before buy
2 - Download because it is free.
The latter will never buy as they only take it because it is for free - so they are not hurting sales as there are no sales lost to them. It's like all those we all knew as kids whose music collection was all on C90 tapes (remember them - an album a side). They did not kill music then (despite all the dire warnings on innersleeve) and downloaders are not killing it now.
The final problem is one of content. Most majors seem to aim their product at the section of society who has the least disposable income - kids.
What do people our age have? Remastered mess and compilation albums.

Everyone is talking up live growth, but they are also missing the point that the acts selling live shows are those who have large back catalogues.
Who is gonna pay to see an unknown act? I will tell you - 2 men & a dog on a bit of string if they are lucky enough to find a venue that still takes on unknown acts that has not been shut down.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

People will listen to what they wanna listen to!

The loudness war thing has been going on since the first records were being made.
Cutting room guy's would take the cutting head to the limit.
It would be distorting anything and everything in it's path.
It's really nothing new!

Not really true. Most vinyl mastering guys are NOT trying to push the cutting head to the limit. Basically for two reasons. 1) A cutting head is expensive and so is replacing one that has burned out coils from pushing it too hard. 2) They are trying to do a GREAT job and know as well as anyone that if they push the limits it can have negative effects on the end product. Some individuals and groups wanted really loud records but it was not the norm in the heyday of vinyl...

FWIW and YMMV