Seeking advice on new Studio from the Mastering Pros!

[Colombian]

Seeking advice on new Studio from the Mastering Pros!

Hello Mastering Engineers from the world!. It is truly amazing how the Internet can get us closer and help each other, don't you think?

Ok, I am a Colombian Engineer with BS Electric/Electronics and Master in Mobile Telecom, who moved to US a few years ago to work in one of the Biggest Telecommunications companies in the US (" can you hear me now? ") BUT, In my heart I am a Musician and I am an Audio enthusiastic, to put it simple, I LOVE Audio Recording and Mastering Engineering.

Based on my experience while recording and mixing musicians and bands in my natal Colombia, one of the things that always bothered me was the lack of Audio professionals and affordable Studio time in my country, the Big name studios are prohibited for the standard musicians and unless they have signed with a well known label or they are rich, they will never get to record or Master their music professionally or reasonably.

To make my story short, I want to put together a semi-professional Mastering Studio to help those many musicians, not only in Colombia but in many other countries in Latin America and Master their work within their budget. I know that Mastering is not an easy Art and require years of experience in Studio, but I believe I have skills with software and hardware that I can use to help others.

What would you consider a basic setup for a Mastering studio? I am planning on using one availaible room at my House in TX. I already own a set of M-Audio near field monitors, GW PC with software such as T-Racks and Wavelab and a few Waves SSL Plugins. I would like advise in loudspeakers, hardware such as compressors, limiters, finalizers, keeping in mind I am not rich!!

Thank you very much for your time and advice!

Colombian

[wado1942]

Well, you already have the absolute bare minimum you'd need for processing. That leaves your room. The room & monitors are THE most important aspect of the job because you can't work if you can't hear what you have. How big is your room and do you have any acoustic treatment? Please include exact measurements of your room & position of object in it if you can.

[vijsolo]

This device is a good starting point for semi pro. especially if you are not a experienced master engineer

TC Electronic Finalizer Express

Cheeerz!!!

[Colombian]

Originally Posted by wado1942

Well, you already have the absolute bare minimum you'd need for processing. That leaves your room. The room & monitors are THE most important aspect of the job because you can't work if you can't hear what you have. How big is your room and do you have any acoustic treatment? Please include exact measurements of your room & position of object in it if you can.

Wado, Thank you very much for the Help!! The room is 11x11 and 8ft height [i know, i know, but that's what I have :( ]. Has a window which i have heavy curtains (lets call it in the Front wall), one door one the main entrance left side of of the wall that faces the window (lets call it back wall) , and the other door for a closet in the right side of the same "back" wall. The desk with speakers (mounted on an isolating pad), Desktop and LCE monitor are in the right wall ( betweek the front and back walls) which has some Auralex tiles right behind the speakers and above, and in the left wall (facing right wall, behind me, front of the speakers) i have an auralex rectangular section to provide a little absorption. I also have some bass traps in the four upper corners of the room. The room is not really treated for Mastering but I would love to improve it! I basically added some Auralex on their recommendation just for mixing my stuff, but obviously it requires more work!!

here are two pictures I just took from both doors for your reference:

Studio

I use Auralex because I have never really used a different one, but, any other suggestion?


Regarding the speakers, which ones would you recommend that are better than those I have (the M-Audio are BX5) ? also, what subwoofer would help? on a 2K budget for speakers.

Thanks also for the suggestion on the TC electronics Finalizer , I was reading earlier about it and seems i could get an express version from around 600 bucks (used). But, is it better than having a separate EQ, Limiter and compressor? or those are additional to the finalizer? if it is good to also have separate signal processors, what kind do you recommend me? I say, on a budget of around $600 to $800 each.

Any other recommendation will be very appreciated!!


THANK YOU!

[MASSIVE Master]

I wouldn't even consider hardware at this point - Dump the entire budget into speakers and room treatment (broadband traps -- loose the foam...).

You're in an acoustic nightmare - 11x11...? Even with an obscene amount of trapping, I don't envy your situation.

[Colombian]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

I wouldn't even consider hardware at this point - Dump the entire budget into speakers and room treatment (broadband traps -- loose the foam...).

You're in an acoustic nightmare - 11x11...? Even with an obscene amount of trapping, I don't envy your situation.

Hi John, thanks for the advise, I know, 11x11 is the worst! I was thinking on adding some false panels. What speakers would you recommend?


Thank you!!

[Greg Reierson]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

You're in an acoustic nightmare - 11x11...? Even with an obscene amount of trapping, I don't envy your situation.

Can you leave a door open? Is there a closet? Anything to break up the modes of the room and let some bass escape would be helpful, but that's a tough place to start.


GR

[KyleDiSanto]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

I wouldn't even consider hardware at this point - Dump the entire budget into speakers and room treatment (broadband traps -- loose the foam...).

You're in an acoustic nightmare - 11x11...? Even with an obscene amount of trapping, I don't envy your situation.

+10thumbsup

To go outboard you are going to need at least a few grand in conversion (unless you go used)...that's before you buy any analog comps/eqs.

Also invest in a good DAC for monitoring.

[Colombian]

Originally Posted by KyleDiSanto

+10thumbsup

To go outboard you are going to need at least a few grand in conversion (unless you go used)...that's before you buy any analog comps/eqs.

Also invest in a good DAC for monitoring.

Ok, then, so what the Pros are saying its impossible to build it without expending tens of thousands of dollars? :(

I thought I had a chance to build something moderate. Ok, lets assume I take care of the acoustics and traps, with panels, meassuring the freq response of the room, etc. Now, having the acoustics in a "moderate" state, what would be the next step? Speakers I supposed? can i get a decent pair of loudspeakers for $1.5 K ?

Thanks!

Ludwing

[Cellotron]

Sorry if this is not what you want to hear - but personally I would abandon this room and find something else that you can rent that is more of a reasonable size. Even dumping cash into lots of acoustic treatment will still give you something that will still have some seriously skewed responses. I'd start with finding a suitable location first, get some decent monitors and bass traps second, and then worry about adding processing after these first two things were taken care of.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[KJandKT]

Originally Posted by Colombian

Ok, then, so what the Pros are saying its impossible to build it without expending tens of thousands of dollars? :(

I'm sure they are not saying that (although the money for the proper gear, room and acoustical treatment certainly would be a huge plus to start with). Everyone has to start somewhere. If you don't have the ability to intern with top-flight mastering engineers then the only thing that you can do is learn, listen and practice yourself.

You can't practice unless you have gear!

So if you can only afford less expensive gear, then start with that. I don't think there are great mastering speakers in the $1500 range, but you can get some very nice nearfields for that. As others have warned you though the room is difficult. Having said that, I have a small room (10x12) that I mix and "master" my own stuff in (not 11x11 though which would be worse...the worst being a perfect cube of course).

I am a well-trained classical musician with very keen ears (I know that many say that so take it for what it's worth! I don't wish to be pretentious so I won't list accolades, but I have really had a wonderful educational background, have worked with some stellar people and do have the ear...I just don't have a stellar budget!). I have trained myself to listen in my room to commerical mixes and compare them to the eq/dynamics of what I am working on. I then burn a CD with the tracks that I am mastering along with other tracks that I am trying to emulate. I take that to the car, home stereo, etc. and compare them. Although not ideal, I have been getting very good results doing this. Can I master like Bob Katz??? Not at all. But since I can't afford him or really anyone decent at this point, I do it myself the best that I can. Currently I am a music teacher in a public school and do recording on the side. Maybe someday I could intern with a quality mastering engineer like Bob. I'm only about 1 hour 15 min from Orlando so who knows!

Reading quality books will help you with both the room building and also with what to buy. I have books that I read like Bob Katz's and others and then...I listen and practice. One benefit that I have in my small room is a lot of 2" and 4" dense fiberglass panels. I inherited several thousand dollars of professionally made panels that were not needed...nice! That has helped tremendously with the bass problems of the small room. In there I can hear fairly well and normally get the EQ fairly close. You might also want to get Ozone 4. It has some very useful features. When I have the ability to, I will get it myself. You can do fairly transparent limiting, multi-band harmonic imaging, multi-band compression, linear eq'ing and also eq matching which would be very useful for you. I think that you could get probably more than what the TC finalizer would offer you at a fraction of the price ($250 I believe).

I hope that you do well. I know that other people that are more experts will give you advice, but I wanted to chime in and give you a little advice from someone who has a producer's ear (I think anyway!) and a pauper's budget!

Many blessings in your endeavor. Have fun and don't give up! There are so many nice people here that will help you. I have asked several questions and have been answered by top flight engineers at times. You definitely have posted in the right forum.

God bless!

[Colombian]

Originally Posted by KJandKT

I hope that you do well. I know that other people that are more experts will give you advice, but I wanted to chime in and give you a little advice from someone who has a producer's ear (I think anyway!) and a pauper's budget!

Many blessings in your endeavor. Have fun and don't give up! There are so many nice people here that will help you. I have asked several questions and have been answered by top flight engineers at times. You definitely have posted in the right forum.

God bless!

Dear KJandKT, all,

I really, really appreciate your advice and all the other excellent suggestions that I have received so far. YEs, everyone had to start somewhere, right??

You are all right! I was focusing on getting gear instead of focusing on the more important fact: Acoustics!

I have change direction and I am investigating on Broadband panels and absorption elements, and have found a lot of interesting information, I will probably have to switch rooms with my 7 months baby!! His room is bigger and does not have the 11x11 problem! There is a forum in this fantastic Site that talks about DIY panels and absorption coefficients that will probably save me money!

I am going to start form the beginning and when the time comes, I will get back here for the rest !!

I really appreciate the time of all of the Engineers that replied to my question and the good suggestions. God bless you all!!

[MASSIVE Master]

You could probably score a set of used B&W 605's and a used Rotel to power them for around $1500. But setting up the room so you can actually use them is going to be a nightmarish scenario -- Been there - done that - epic fail - glad it wasn't my room... Although I was trapped in a room around that size for around a year or so myself some time ago (with similarly nightmarish results, even considering the amount of trapping involved).

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by Colombian

Seeking advice on new Studio from the Mastering Pros!

You might want to book a few sessions at a professional mastering studio first, to get an idea about how real M.E.s work.

Then decide if you really want to get into it yourself.

Cheers - JT

[Colombian]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

You could probably score a set of used B&W 605's and a used Rotel to power them for around $1500. But setting up the room so you can actually use them is going to be a nightmarish scenario -- Been there - done that - epic fail - glad it wasn't my room... Although I was trapped in a room around that size for around a year or so myself some time ago (with similarly nightmarish results, even considering the amount of trapping involved).

Thank you!! I will check on those B&W ! I want to thank for the other suggestions on booking the sessions in a Mastering Studio, will try that for sure. And I am 100% sure i will go ahead with my studio, no matter what!

I found this very interesting MIX article about producer David Gamson and its experience dealing with a room with exact dimensions as mine and the solution they worked out with the Engineers at Auralex.

David Gamson's Mechanism Studios Gets A Tune-Up From Auralex Acoustics

What its interesting its the setup and positioning of the broadband traps, bass traps and diffusers to attach the axial, oblique and tangential modes. I guess my own problem its around the 50Hz, 87Hz and 100Hz. SO basically my problem translates to Bass traps (http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm) . I imagine getting those corner traps from Auralex or Foam by mail will address part of the problem. And building several OC 703 panels will provide more trapping!


See? I guess I can see a light at the end of the tunnel!

Comments?


Thank you!

[Colombian]

did I forget to mention that I've just got me a great book called "Mastering Audio: The Art and the Science by Bob Katz" and can't wait to jump i to it.

Who is Bob Katz anyway? ( ) j/k!!

One of the 5 people I would like to know in person, the other 4? Eric Clapton, Mario Benedetti, Rick Rubin, and the Pope.

Saludos!!

[MASSIVE Master]

What its interesting its the setup and positioning of the broadband traps, bass traps and diffusers to attach the axial, oblique and tangential modes. I guess my own problem its around the 50Hz, 87Hz and 100Hz. SO basically my problem translates to Bass traps (http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm) . I imagine getting those corner traps from Auralex or Foam by mail will address part of the problem. And building several OC 703 panels will provide more trapping!

*Assuming* that Auralex is using some sort of higher-density rigid material (other than foam), such as rock wool or rigid glass or what not, go for it. Otherwise, RealTraps or GIK would be starting points.

I opt not to comment on the FBM stuff...

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by Colombian

I imagine getting those corner traps from Auralex or Foam by mail will address part of the problem.

I wouldn't bother with the FBM or the Auralex corner traps as they are ineffective. DIY traps with OC 703 or other rockwool materials will end up being a lot more effective if you do it right - if you do a search in the studio construction forum will bring up lots of threads on this. Otherwise a relatively affordable off the shelf solution for bass traps could be gotten from GIK Acoustics. Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Colombian]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

I wouldn't bother with the FBM or the Auralex corner traps as they are ineffective.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Hello Steve, John,

Thank you once again! I just called a SIP branch in Texas and they have OC 703 available, I also ran a test with REW and will use it as a reference once I have the pannels built! Great to know about the Auralex stuff, pretty expensive I must say.

Best regards!

[finetuner]

Before diving into BK's excellent book, i recommend that you learn about acoustics and studio building as much as you can right now. This will help you to get the most out of what you've got. But i think you already see the priority by now.

Besides the forum you mentioned on Gearslutz here's another one for example:
PSW Recording Forums: Acoustics in Motion

This site contains a lot of valuable info:
Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms

I suggest that you find a book on the subject that will take you from basic principles to practical application.
I can't come up with a title as i've got one in my own (Dutch) language and the English book i've got, called "The Master Handbook of Acoustics" may be too difficult to start with.
Maybe someone can mention a good book ?

[Colombian]

Originally Posted by finetuner

I suggest that you find a book on the subject that will take you from basic principles to practical application.
I can't come up with a title as i've got one in my own (Dutch) language and the English book i've got, called "The Master Handbook of Acoustics" may be too difficult to start with.
Maybe someone can mention a good book ?

You guys are the best! thanks for the recommendation!
I though I had a fair knowledge on acoustics, but I guess I will need to dive more in depth. I am just realizing that Recording or controls rooms are Completely different setups to Mastering rooms which require a lot more acoustic details, this is exciting !! new things to learn!!.

Being an engineer myself with fairly decent researches in the Audio field in Colombia (wrote a Thesis about "The need of Audio Professionals in the Music Industry in Colombia" which helped in the creation of a new Audio Specialization program at the Pontifical Bolivariana University and recorded a few local artists while in College) I bought a book a long time ago by Mr Glen Ballou which I have always used as my "personal Audio training reference" The acoustics chapter is the first one on the book!! that says a lot isn't it?

Thanks again for the links and the information. I have been reading Mr Ethan Winer and his recomendations and I already got the materials (OC 703 and 705) and I am performing some tests with Room EQ Wizard and ETF5 for sanity check! I am clearly seen some problems on the low end , which I will address soon!

Thanks for the input, I know there are a lot of Acoustic info that belongs to other forums, so I apologize for extending the topic here.

In regards of the loudspeakers, I am researching those B&W that was recommended for the 1.5K budget. Any other recommendation?

Gracias y Saludos!!

[Colombian]

Just letting you know that I finally built my studio and have a few bands to start working with.

I ended up setting up a Mixing and Mastering studio for low budget artists.

Thanks to all for you excellent recommendations.


Ludwing
US MASTERING -/ ludwing diaz