Benefits of Mid/Side?

Rainy Days · 15th October 2009

Working in Ozone4, toying around with the Mid/Side in the EQ and I believe in the compressor/imager as well.

Can someone recommend me some good reads about the benefits of Mid/Side mastering?

Thanks,
Nathan

24-96 Mastering · 15th October 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Rain

Working in Ozone4, toying around with the Mid/Side in the EQ and I believe in the compressor/imager as well.

Can someone recommend me some good reads about the benefits of Mid/Side mastering?

Thanks,
Nathan

M/S EQ is usually used correctively. If what you want to EQ occurs only in the center or to the far sides / out of polarity, try applying the filter only to that component. The benefit may be effective treatment of a specific problem with less impact on the mix. The downside is that it may impact the mix more, since you're changing relative EQ/levels, which may take away from the perceived mix 'integrity'. It really is different for each case.

Sweetening or creative EQing in M/S is reasonably rare here. Some common applications:
If a track could do with some sparkle / width and/or if the mix is a bit dry, you can try a high shelve boost on the S only for air / dimension / boosting-the-in-betweens. Be carful though, it's easy to overdo this.
If you have a heavy rock mix, boosting the very low mids on the S can give double tracked guitars some more balls / weight. To be used very gently and be aware that this may make it harder to achieve loudness without obvious artifacts.
If you want to give a track a bit more bite/grip, but a high mid boost makes the vocals sound too mean/nasal, try that boost on the side signal only.

Etc...

As always, what you should do depends on what you think needs doing and will be different for each new track.

24-96 Mastering · 15th October 2009

Unlinked Mid/side compression is very rarely used here.

The idea is basically that impact in the mid signal will not pull down the sides, i.e. with most material, that means the sound stage gets wider with impact in the music. Sounds like a great idea... but somehow is hardly ever applicable. I do that maybe once a year.

On the corrective side of things, unlinked M/S compression is sometimes useful, usually when a far out in panorama / far out of phase component of the mix needs to be controlled separately. Especially in combination with a side chain filter, this can be useful (controlling high mid or high frequency harshness in the sides, for example). This comes up maybe once every couple of months. De-essing (i.e. narrow band compression) on the Mid only is pretty common.

PS: To answer your actual question: I think there's some stuff about unlinked M/S processing in Bob Katz's book "Mastering Audio" (well worth a read). But to be honest, M/S processing is a straightforward enough concept to be grasped via learning by doing: Turn the knobs and listen to how the sound changes. When A/B comparing before and after (even with slight EQ), always compensate change in loudness via the plugin output gain in order to make your judgement on EQ, not loudness.

Virtalahde · 15th October 2009

M/S EQ is used pretty rarely here, too. I don't even have an analog matrix, although I'm going to build one.

Usually it's really just notching out something in either channel, usually M. A typical problem could be something poking up in the midrange, but reducing it in L/R wipes it out too much. The Sonoris LP EQ works well for those things.

disco judas · 15th October 2009

From reading this, I get the impression that the Manley varimu mid side mod is not very popular?

That is an expensive unit - 4500$ for the regular version, so people buying it should be using mid side a lot, no?

24-96 Mastering · 15th October 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by disco judas

From reading this, I get the impression that the Manley varimu mid side mod is not very popular?

Indeed it isn't that popular. But that may be partly because the text on the Manley web states that it's either the HPF mod or the M/S mod, not both, and most people need the HPF.
Nothing wrong with having an M/S option though. Had I know that it is possible to have both in one box for a 500 bucks more, I would probably have ordered it too when I was having my mods done.

Quote:

That is an expensive unit - 4500$ for the regular version, so people buying it should be using mid side a lot, no?

Maybe David Glasser of Airshow Mastering can chime in on how / how often he tends to use the Vari-MU switched to M/S.

Darius van H · 15th October 2009

I use M/S EQ every day. Like it's going out of fashion.

gregor z · 16th October 2009

Me too.....

tribeofenki · 16th October 2009

Me likes the approach of M/S
like the reverbs on side and dedicated EQ

Never1 · 16th October 2009

I use M/S for very specific cuts and boosts to balance a track out. Usually no more than a db, usually less, with fairly narrow Q. I use it very often for this application.

Never M/S compression... ever. Just does weird things to the balance.

Sometimes a desser on the center channel to clean up a spitty vocal.

M/S is wonderful when used responsibly and carefully.

15th October 2009	#1
Rainy Days Gear nut Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 98 Thread Starter	Benefits of Mid/Side? Working in Ozone4, toying around with the Mid/Side in the EQ and I believe in the compressor/imager as well. Can someone recommend me some good reads about the benefits of Mid/Side mastering? Thanks, Nathan __________________

15th October 2009	#4
Virtalahde Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2003 Location: Kuhmoinen, Finland Posts: 666 Verified Member	M/S EQ is used pretty rarely here, too. I don't even have an analog matrix, although I'm going to build one. Usually it's really just notching out something in either channel, usually M. A typical problem could be something poking up in the midrange, but reducing it in L/R wipes it out too much. The Sonoris LP EQ works well for those things. __________________ Jaakko Viitalähde Virtalähde Mastering, Kuhmoinen/Finland http://www.virtalahde.com http://www.facebook.com/pages/Virtal...g/278311633180 Virtalähde Mastering, the studio construction thread: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/photo...ing-house.html

16th October 2009	#9
tribeofenki Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2008 Location: @$tr@L pL@n3 Posts: 1,511	Me likes the approach of M/S like the reverbs on side and dedicated EQ __________________ Ishkur Guide to Electronica ૐ Where are all the Goa parties?

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15th October 2009	#3
24-96 Mastering Lives for gear Joined: May 2008 Location: Karlsruhe, Germany Posts: 2,747 Verified Member	Unlinked Mid/side compression is very rarely used here. The idea is basically that impact in the mid signal will not pull down the sides, i.e. with most material, that means the sound stage gets wider with impact in the music. Sounds like a great idea... but somehow is hardly ever applicable. I do that maybe once a year. On the corrective side of things, unlinked M/S compression is sometimes useful, usually when a far out in panorama / far out of phase component of the mix needs to be controlled separately. Especially in combination with a side chain filter, this can be useful (controlling high mid or high frequency harshness in the sides, for example). This comes up maybe once every couple of months. De-essing (i.e. narrow band compression) on the Mid only is pretty common. PS: To answer your actual question: I think there's some stuff about unlinked M/S processing in Bob Katz's book "Mastering Audio" (well worth a read). But to be honest, M/S processing is a straightforward enough concept to be grasped via learning by doing: Turn the knobs and listen to how the sound changes. When A/B comparing before and after (even with slight EQ), always compensate change in loudness via the plugin output gain in order to make your judgement on EQ, not loudness.

15th October 2009	#5
disco judas Gear addict Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 327	From reading this, I get the impression that the Manley varimu mid side mod is not very popular? That is an expensive unit - 4500$ for the regular version, so people buying it should be using mid side a lot, no?

15th October 2009	#7
Darius van H Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2005 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 1,735 Verified Member	I use M/S EQ every day. Like it's going out of fashion.

16th October 2009	#8
gregor z Gear addict Joined: Apr 2005 Location: Slovenia Posts: 417 Verified Member	Me too.....

16th October 2009	#10
Never1 Lives for gear Joined: May 2007 Posts: 905	I use M/S for very specific cuts and boosts to balance a track out. Usually no more than a db, usually less, with fairly narrow Q. I use it very often for this application. Never M/S compression... ever. Just does weird things to the balance. Sometimes a desser on the center channel to clean up a spitty vocal. M/S is wonderful when used responsibly and carefully.