big bass.....wait for mastering?

[hey_mavis]

Am I right in thinking that one should mix the bass and kik somewhat more lightly in a mix than it's meant to sound in the final product?


Im thinking that would increase head room in the overall mix and allow for the mastering house to boost the bass as needed. So long as the bass and kik (the low end elements in general) are in the correct proportion it should not be a problem.

Would u agree?

Im speaking mainly about bass heavy electronic music like dance or hip hop...

[KyleDiSanto]

I would say to get your "bass" or low end where you want it and let the ME Enhance what you have done.

[MikeyMike]

One thing I have noticed about hard hitting bass and drums in todays music, especially pop and rap, don't hit as hard in the clubs and cars like the pre-2000 music do. It seems like there is more of a mid emphasis on bass and kick than low end which really kills the vibe of the low end spectrum in clubs and cars but makes the music more enjoyable in headphones, which I hate using to listen to music. For example, engineers take a listen to Juveniles "400 Degreez". In headphones and desktop speakers, the bass and kick is hearable but no overly emphasized. Now play this cd back on some great monitors and/or in a car/club and it slams to the 10th degree. What has happened to the low end of todays music to cause this to happen?

[masterizer]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike

One thing I have noticed about hard hitting bass and drums in todays music, especially pop and rap, don't hit as hard in the clubs and cars like the pre-2000 music do. It seems like there is more of a mid emphasis on bass and kick than low end which really kills the vibe of the low end spectrum in clubs and cars but makes the music more enjoyable in headphones, which I hate using to listen to music. For example, engineers take a listen to Juveniles "400 Degreez". In headphones and desktop speakers, the bass and kick is hearable but no overly emphasized. Now play this cd back on some great monitors and/or in a car/club and it slams to the 10th degree. What has happened to the low end of todays music to cause this to happen?

Cars and especially Clubs have EQ's so you can turn up the bass if you like, most of the club music I've heard has plenty of bass and is fried crispy "loud"

for your mixes, mix it to sound how you want it to sound. Don't leave anything to mastering because you might not be able to achieve the results you want in mastering since we're dealing with a stereo file vs your mix with individual tracks. Do however listen to the mixes on every set of speakers you can find, even the poorest quality speakers (some listeners will be listening on these!) and don't limit or compress on the master buss, then you'll have an idea of where you stand before mastering.

[MikeyMike]

Originally Posted by masterizer

Cars and especially Clubs have EQ's so you can turn up the bass if you like, most of the club music I've heard has plenty of bass and is fried crispy "loud"

for your mixes, mix it to sound how you want it to sound. Don't leave anything to mastering because you might not be able to achieve the results you want in mastering since we're dealing with a stereo file vs your mix with individual tracks. Do however listen to the mixes on every set of speakers you can find, even the poorest quality speakers (some listeners will be listening on these!) and don't limit or compress on the master buss, then you'll have an idea of where you stand before mastering.

Duh, I already know all this. What I want to know is why the bass on early Cash Money releases hit so hard and deep without really being discernable in headphones and desktop speakers like todays hip-hop mixes. I noticed the same trend with modern R&B vs 90s R&B. It's as if the mix engineers somehow had a crossover set on the master track so to speak. The lows, mids, and highs were easily heard with playback in car systems, especially ones with amps and subwoofers with neither section being overbearing like in todays music. For example, the Carter 3 basslines are rediculously overbearingly loud but doesn't hit or sound any better and actually worst than Juvenill "400 Degreez" and B.G. "Chopper City In The Ghetto". The latter two's low end stomps the Carter 3 but isn't as loud, strange.

[Chris Lago]

Get the bass right before mastering happens.

[aleatoric]

naw, get it right in the mix.

[miro]

no pro ME here, just do it occasionally for my label. (it's tempting me so much that i sometimes do it myself)
i recently noticed while (let's call it) "mastering" several tracks for a release, that the track(s) which were more
bass heavy seemed much easier to handle while processing. dipping lower end and low mids actually gave alot
free room for those tracks, which in the end even had the chance to sound more open and also louder. this
experience has revealed something to me that i'm remembering from now on.

this was done with tough, punchy and bassy (minimal)techno tunes

my impression. correct me if i'm wrong!

[Darius van H]

I'd rather master something where somebody did something over-enthusiastically (like add too much bass) then something where they were too careful and polite (like held back on the bass).

Note, I'm not saying that i find over-bassy mixes easier to work on then bass-lite mixes, i'm just talking about the vibe and state of mind of the mix-man.

[hey_mavis]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

I'd rather master something where somebody did something over-enthusiastically (like add too much bass) then something where they were too careful and polite (like held back on the bass).

Note, I'm not saying that i find over-bassy mixes easier to work on then bass-lite mixes, i'm just talking about the vibe and state of mind of the mix-man.

interesting point...very interesting.

[OMNIFEX]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike

One thing I have noticed about hard hitting bass and drums in todays music, especially pop and rap, don't hit as hard in the clubs and cars like the pre-2000 music do. It seems like there is more of a mid emphasis on bass and kick than low end which really kills the vibe of the low end spectrum in clubs and cars but makes the music more enjoyable in headphones, which I hate using to listen to music. For example, engineers take a listen to Juveniles "400 Degreez". In headphones and desktop speakers, the bass and kick is hearable but no overly emphasized. Now play this cd back on some great monitors and/or in a car/club and it slams to the 10th degree. What has happened to the low end of todays music to cause this to happen?

It is a combination of overly compressed tracks today than 10 - 15 years ago
and, poor sound systems.

The lowest frequencies are actually more today than decades ago.

Cheers!

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by hey_mavis

Am I right in thinking that one should mix the bass and kik somewhat more lightly in a mix than it's meant to sound in the final product?

I would try to dial the low end in to the best of your ability, room and system, without trying to guess or estimate what an ME would do.

An ME familiar with the genre would be able to pull it together or ask you for a mix touch up if it was to much trouble to get a handle on it.

[lowland]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

I'd rather master something where somebody did something over-enthusiastically (like add too much bass) then something where they were too careful and polite (like held back on the bass).

Note, I'm not saying that i find over-bassy mixes easier to work on then bass-lite mixes, i'm just talking about the vibe and state of mind of the mix-man.

Spot on, Darius, that's almost word-for-word what I was going to say. Also Tom W is on the money: IMO those are the posts for the OP to note in this discussion so far. They are also from a couple of guys who do this for a living - could there be a connection?

[Darwin James]

Bass is over rated. The new trend in music is no bass.

Go no bass or go home!

[miro]

Originally Posted by Darwin James

Bass is over rated. The new trend in music is no bass.

Go no bass or go home!

edit: your signature is so true though!