Idiots

[I.R.Baboon]

I'm working on this project. It's for a fixed price. The guy keeps making me do revisions. I think we're up to v6 now.

Anyway, i've become convinced that the problem is between the guy's ears, not in my mastering, so for the last version, i sent him back v5 completely unchanged, 100% identical. Now he says that he likes the new openness in v6, but doesn't like the extra low i added.

What a f**king twat.

Anyone else gets teed-off with idiot clients?

[24-96 Mastering]

Placebo is a normal part of perception... always, and even on your end of things. Anyway, I think everyone has very 'demanding' clients every now and then. It can be stressful, but if the back & forth actually leads to satisfaction (whether any real improvement has been made or not), then it's all part of the process. If I were to play devil's advocate, I'd say that if your most demanding clients are seriously annoying you, your rates aren't high enough

[wado1942]

I just did a pro-bono mixing job for somebody. I told him he was too close to the mic and there was clipping. He said he didn't have time to redo the vocals so "just try to make it work". I sent him the first song for his approval and he said it was PERFECT. So I sent him the rest, then all of a sudden, he didn't like the delay I used. OK fine, I took down the delay and sent a revision. That's perfect, but now the vocals are too loud. I told him I wouldn't be willing to do another revision unless he was willing to rerecord his vocals.

That was last week and I haven't heard back.

But seriously, I charge by the hour for this reason. If any revisions are needed, they go onto the bill. Unless the reason for revision was my fault of course.


Then I get clients that are the opposite. I did a mix for a band not too long ago and screwed up the last few bars (I needed to switch from the final vocal take to the first). The band leader went "I like it".
Then I said "I can fix it in about a minute".
"Oh, please."

[narcoman]

a gentle word with him. "i'm going to have to call time on this project - one more revision for the price agreed - other than that extras will cost "

He won't like it...... but you've got a business to work.

Alternatively you try this too: Send three versions. Ask which he likes the best. Saying YES or NO to something is not easy for people to do. I ALWAYS get them to choose the one they like rather than accept or reject.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon

I'm working on this project. It's for a fixed price. The guy keeps making me do revisions. I think we're up to v6 now.

Anyway, i've become convinced that the problem is between the guy's ears, not in my mastering, so for the last version, i sent him back v5 completely unchanged, 100% identical. Now he says that he likes the new openness in v6, but doesn't like the extra low i added.

What a f**king twat.

Anyone else gets teed-off with idiot clients?

No offense intended but given the tone of your post and the facts presented, [comment edited by mod]... or ... you don't have good listening/people skills.

You may think it's good but your monitoring is likely masking the weakness of each pass, the client can feel this, but not clearly describe it to you. Or you're not hearing what they're after. So you're both going in circles with each other.

Fixed rate work requires a great first pass, and great people skills.

[s.d.finley]

Next, send him V4 as the new one and see what he thinks. Keep cycling the previous masters as the next. Eventually he will like one......

Or do as Narcoman says!!!

[lowland]

Originally Posted by lucey

No offense intended but [edit]... you don't have good listening/people skills.

That's the first thing that came to my mind as well when I read your post. Ranting about customers, even if not named, in a public forum gives me a very uneasy feeling and makes me question if you're in the right job. There's always a first time, I suppose, but on the whole I can't think of circumstances under which the situation you describe would happen here. I say that for two practical reasons:

Firstly, I've been at this a while now and much of the reason I'm still able to do it is because I value my people skills, both those I was brought up to have and those I've acquired through doing the job - I'd like to think that in your shoes a little lighthearted Q&A would soon reveal what the client was really looking for.

My fallback would be the second reason, which is that I work on the understanding that the price of a mastering job includes one set of amendments, any more go on the clock unless it's my fault. Since I've had this policy the number of v3s has been very few, and although there wasn't a huge amount pre-policy I think having one has helped clients to think through what they want a bit more.

All the best with this, hope you're able to resolve it to everyone's satisfaction.

[sleeper1400]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Alternatively you try this too: Send three versions. Ask which he likes the best. Saying YES or NO to something is not easy for people to do. I ALWAYS get them to choose the one they like rather than accept or reject.

this works for me almost everytime.

when you give them a choice,(even if 2 are identical and 1 has the bas boosted 1Db)

it relinquishes responsibility from you to them.

then, when they make the choice, there ALWAYS right.

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by lucey

No offense intended but given the tone of your post and the facts presented, [comment edited by mod]... or ... you don't have good listening/people skills.

You may think it's good but your monitoring is likely masking the weakness of each pass, the client can feel this, but not clearly describe it to you. Or you're not hearing what they're after. So you're both going in circles with each other.

Fixed rate work requires a great first pass, and great people skills.

Brian -
Sounds like in your post above that you are assuming a LOT considering you haven't
heard any of the mixes or masters. I do strongly agree that good communication skills are absolutely essential for mastering though!

I'm more of in the attitude of "do whatever the client asks for with a smile" myself (ummm... with the exception of any non-mastering services, that is) - but it's not like the original poster is saying that this is a regular occurrence - and he's also noting that the client is hearing differences between data identical audio (kind of dirty pool to provide them with this - but something I've heard of at least a couple of other fed up ME's do in the past as well).

Anyway - I keep my written official revision policy to be only one free revision for each flat rate package order - although if the requests are reasonable I've certainly done 2nd and even 3rd revisions for free as well. But there is indeed the rare client who are obsessive and indecisive that can put you through "changes" and I think a policy like this helps fend off the psychos from requiring you to give away an exorbitant amount of studio time for free.

I've only gone to something like 5 revisions on a couple projects though - working with low-fidelity sources where the client really wanted to get the most possible out of the mastering - and who were slightly obsessive as well -but in the end I actually felt the revisions helped to get them the best possible master. Hope that it works out for the best with this project as well!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by lucey

Fixed rate work requires a great first pass, and great people skills.

which, without trying to sound like a creep, Mr Lucey has in gigatonnes.... I can attest to that at least !!