plugin to simulate radio station processing?

[mhartung]

Anyone know if a good plugin (preset start point) to simulate, as best as possible, what happens to a mix when broadcast over FM radio? Including multiband compression and frequency limiting. I do understand that radio stations all try to have their own sound so there is no one size fits all. I just want to simulate as best I can a typical sound of FM. Also, anyone know really how deep the gain reduction sits on an average?

Thanks

Mike

[Jesse Graffam]

There's a few... most are not nearly as good as what the good sounding stations use, and one is quite a lot better... for an absurdly low price, but I don't feel right about "spamming" what it is here, since I'm involved. PM me if you want the url.

Btw, it's not a plugin but standalone, and for Windows. You won't find anything for Linux or OSX that will do what you're looking for, that I've ever heard of, and I"m pretty well into that kind of stuff. ;)

That aside... I should note that every radio station is processing differently. Many are in a pretty well narrow range, but some of them are quite a ways off from center. Some in a good way (more micro and macro dynamics), and some in a bad way (complete lack of dynamics, strident bad EQing, uber-clipper-distortion, and much worse.. etc, etc, etc...)

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by mhartung

Anyone know if a good plugin (preset start point) to simulate, as best as possible, what happens to a mix when broadcast over FM radio? Including multiband compression and frequency limiting. I do understand that radio stations all try to have their own sound so there is no one size fits all. I just want to simulate as best I can a typical sound of FM. Also, anyone know really how deep the gain reduction sits on an average?

Thanks

Mike

The Audioease Speakerphone is great--- bar none. Take a look at this demo!

Speakerphone 2

take the guided tour.

It's not cheap, and it does way more than just simulate or provide samples of backgrounds and effects. But if you want the "you are there" effect or to take any of your sounds through any speaker made by man, look no further.

[Tropicana]

Originally Posted by bob katz

The Audioease Speakerphone is great--- bar none. Take a look at this demo!

Speakerphone 2

take the guided tour.

It's not cheap, and it does way more than just simulate or provide samples of backgrounds and effects. But if you want the "you are there" effect or to take any of your sounds through any speaker made by man, look no further.

I totaly agree with this. I dont think its expensive for what you can do with it.

[mhartung]

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies. I own speakerphone and it IS excellent, but not quite what I was thinking. I am looking for somehting that simulates the dynamic processing/EQing that is done before the transmitter in a modern pop radio station. I don't know what is used in radio these days but the name optimod gets mentioned often.

So, if you have any further insight, I would love to know.

Thanks again!

Mike

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by mhartung

Anyone know if a good plugin (preset start point) to simulate, as best as possible, what happens to a mix when broadcast over FM radio? Including multiband compression and frequency limiting. I do understand that radio stations all try to have their own sound so there is no one size fits all. I just want to simulate as best I can a typical sound of FM. Also, anyone know really how deep the gain reduction sits on an average?

Thanks

Mike

Here's a free one to try (if you just want that sound).

Download the VST version

As to what happens in a real FM process, Read THIS.

Hope this helps.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by mhartung

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies. I own speakerphone and it IS excellent, but not quite what I was thinking. I am looking for somehting that simulates the dynamic processing/EQing that is done before the transmitter in a modern pop radio station. I don't know what is used in radio these days but the name optimod gets mentioned often.

So, if you have any further insight, I would love to know.

Thanks again!

Mike

I realized after posting that that's what you were looking for. The speakerphone is obviously the answer to another (unasked) question :-). Some people use the Waves C1 Comp-Sidechain with a fairly aggressive high frequency tilt to get at radio processing simulation. But an Optimod is an Optimod and there's nothing else like it, but I imagine that a TC Elecronic Finalizer or MD3 or MD4 would do a pretty good job if you knew where to set it! There are many presets in the Optimod and stations often customize their own.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by bob katz

II imagine that a TC Elecronic Finalizer or MD3 or MD4 would do a pretty good job if you knew where to set it!.

I have a friend who made a very good emulation of a popular radio station in Denmark, using his Finalizer.

[MattGray]

There is such a plugin I believe it's McDSP's ML4000... I remember demo'ing it & thinking this sounds like how an Orban MB limiter would process audio for broadcast. Which is exactly the reason I didn't buy it.. it's hypey, excitery, pumpy & flattens things. Anything but transparent...

How is that for a review...

Matt

[Ben F]

The Waves C4 has an 'FM radio' preset which isn't too bad. Still, never as aggressive (and distorted) as JJJ here in Sydney. I can't listen to it any more...

[pfosk]

Waves AudioTrack followed by Waves L2 with a low threshold is all you need.

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by Ben F

The Waves C4 has an 'FM radio' preset which isn't too bad. Still, never as aggressive (and distorted) as JJJ here in Sydney. I can't listen to it any more...

Actually, you have made an interesting observation, and swerved into a whole area of thought that is probably foreign to many on this site.

The question presented here is akin to asking "How do I make a guitar sound like it's been through an amplifier and cabinet?"

The truth is that there are just as many ways to make a radio station sound as there are ways to make an amplified guitar sound!

If you poke around on google, you will find more protracted arguments about the finer points of how to process for radio than you will about Neve vs. API pre's.

That's the reason I recommended THIS. It actually does a pretty good job of simulating various airchains used in "Radioland" (if you know what you're doing). It's FREE, too!

Make sure you download the VST version (as shown below):

[Jesse Graffam]

@ Stereo Tool... it's a bit antiquated in design. It'll get you about up to the Optimod 8100A1/XT2 days, circa 1985... but it can't emulate what the new boxes sound like, yet. I won't go into the technical history of broadcast processing from 1985 till now to prove it (in this topic at least), but its out there for those willing to geek out hard enough and talk to some insiders along the way. By nature it is an industry of secrets, much like mastering can be, so you might find it hard getting more than a general overview.

What you could do is compare what Stereo Tool sounds like quasi-on-air against a good sounding local station, with something like MPX Tool, or some other modulation monitor that doesn't let you (or them) cheat by over-modulating. You'll get the picture pretty fast that Stereo Tool is obviously a great value for the price, but can't hang with the big boys.

If you're just using it to get a general idea of what *might* happen to your music when it gets played on air (which is all you can do) then it's a pretty good tool for that IF there is a preset that sounds very average in comparison to stations across your target areas (be it 75uS or 50uS emphasis).

Oh and... PMs sent.

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by uncajesse

@ Stereo Tool... it's a bit antiquated in design. It'll get you about up to the Optimod 8100A1/XT2 days, circa 1985... but it can't emulate what the new boxes sound like, yet. I won't go into the technical history of broadcast processing from 1985 till now to prove it (in this topic at least), but its out there for those willing to geek out hard enough and talk to some insiders along the way. By nature it is an industry of secrets, much like mastering can be, so you might find it hard getting more than a general overview.

What you could do is compare what Stereo Tool sounds like quasi-on-air against a good sounding local station, with something like MPX Tool, or some other modulation monitor that doesn't let you (or them) cheat by over-modulating. You'll get the picture pretty fast that Stereo Tool is obviously a great value for the price, but can't hang with the big boys.

If you're just using it to get a general idea of what *might* happen to your music when it gets played on air (which is all you can do) then it's a pretty good tool for that IF there is a preset that sounds very average in comparison to stations across your target areas (be it 75uS or 50uS emphasis).

Oh and... PMs sent.

Yeah, things have come a long way since the old 8100/XT thang, but I brought up the idea of using ST 'cause it's FREE, and the question seemed to be about wanting to get a sound for a particular thang the poster was workin' on right now, rather than wanting something expensive for long term use.

Of course, I could be wrong, ya know; I understand that it happens to everyone (though, not to ME, of course -- I thought I was wrong once, but it turns out that I was mistaken about that).

[Tropicana]

But it is a good question from the topic starter.
Must be interesting for the plugin makers to make such a tool and also an eye/ear opener for many mastering engineers if they hear what happened with their mastering.

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by Tropicana

But it is a good question from the topic starter.
Must be interesting for the plugin makers to make such a tool and also an eye/ear opener for many mastering engineers if they hear what happened with their mastering.

Yes, and everyone should read this:

"What Happens To My Recording When It's Played On The Radio?"

-By Robert Orban, CRL/Orban and Frank Foti, Omnia Audio

If nothing else, at least take to heart this one quote from the above work:

"There has been a myth in the recording world that broadcast processing will modify these clipped, over-compressed CDs less than it will modify clean, dynamic CDs.

"Thanks in part to phase rotation, this myth is absolutely false.

"In particular, any clipping in the source material causes nothing but added distortion without increasing on-air loudness at all."

[Tropicana]

Originally Posted by 12ax7

Yes, and everyone should read this:

"What Happens To My Recording When It's Played On The Radio?"

-By Robert Orban, CRL/Orban and Frank Foti, Omnia Audio

If nothing else, at least take to heart this one quote from the above work:

"There has been a myth in the recording world that broadcast processing will modify these clipped, over-compressed CDs less than it will modify clean, dynamic CDs.

"Thanks in part to phase rotation, this myth is absolutely false.

"In particular, any clipping in the source material causes nothing but added distortion without increasing on-air loudness at all."

In plain english :-) it means the more dynamics the track the better it sounds on the radio right?

The more overcompressed the track the more over-over compressed it sounds on the radio right?

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by Tropicana

In plain english :-) it means the more dynamics the track the better it sounds on the radio right?

The more overcompressed the track the more over-over compressed it sounds on the radio right?

While that is true to a certain degree, what wrecks your track more than anything else is clipping (even "soft" clipping).

...And the worst part is that clipping will NOT make your track sound louder on the air. It's a "loose-loose" scenario!

[Tropicana]

Originally Posted by 12ax7

While that is true to a certain degree, what wrecks your track more than anything else is clipping (even "soft" clipping).

...And the worst part is that clipping will NOT make your track sound louder on the air. It's a "loose-loose" scenario!

Oke, I understand but then which of the two will sound the best you think?
it means the more dynamics the track the better it sounds on the radio right?

The one with more dynamics or the one which is overcompressed?

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by Tropicana

Oke, I understand but then which of the two will sound the best you think?
it means the more dynamics the track the better it sounds on the radio right?

The one with more dynamics or the one which is overcompressed?

It kinda depends: For the most part, these airchains are designed and tweaked with the expectation of the "typical" processing of whatever format they're running. So yes, I have (rarely) heard some really dynamic stuff come up in a playlist that tended to "fool" their gear into over-reacting. But the newer processors are much more capable of handling that sort of thing than the old stuff was back when Phil Spector was tailoring his old stuff for AM.

By and large, I'd say that second-guessing your work specifically in anticipation of broadcast is a bad idea, except to bear in mind that anything below 40hz and above 15khz will be absolutely non-existent on the air (and anything above 3khz will be severely de-essed).

Frankly, I'm amazed that the amount of violence done to the signal in preparation for air renders anything bearing any resemblance at all to the original material being played!

When I consider just how little dynamic range is left in most music these days, I have to wonder if the "music of the future" will be anything short of pure pink noise!

[i604]

I must admit that stereo tool rocks . I load a good chain of effects, ending w/ stereotool, and guess what? Even low bitrates from audio streams just sound good . Emphasis recovered .

[mhartung]

I will have to investigate Stereo Tool. I still wonder though if there is a combination of plugins that might simulate FM processing as in a signal chain, ie HP/LP filtering+Deessing+Multiband compression, and if so how one might get close. I don't want my mixes to sound like the result, I merely would like to have a chain that I can play into the line inputs on my boom box. :-)

Very interesting so far!

Thanks for everyones suggestions.

Mike

[Jesse Graffam]

It is possible to very crudely simulate the architecture of these with plugins like that, yes. But you won't come anywhere near the sound of a broadcast processor. The reason is that they are studio type effects, and are not made to be program independent. That is, they don't adept very well at all to the material at hand which is what broadcast audio processors do very well.

For the most part, compression for studio use is still back in 1939 with the invention of the Pro Gar. Sure some advances have been made that removes some of the problems, and the control signals have been improved, but same basic idea in the grand scheme of things.

One compressor that was created for radio, that ended up now getting studio time, is the Gates STA-Level. It was the first compressor that gated itself (stopped the release) from increasing the gain if the input levels fell below a certain point. Thus allowing the compressor to be driven harder and faster without having the typical "gain rush" during silence. I think that was 1955 when that came out?

By 1956 there was the Gates Level Devil which is superior in noise and also adds a "return to level" function which will slowly increase the gain after a hold time has passed so that the gain can return upwards even if all of the input audio is under the threshold. As a safety measure mainly.

And as you can imagine the innovations kept coming and coming and coming. In fact there are analog boxes that still have more features than the latest digital boxes (yet sound inferior to). Aphex 2020 MkIII is a great example of a great sounding analog box.

For instance just between MkII and MkIII there was more than 40 improvements made, and the box still uses more patents than any other broadcast audio processor out there. :)

[i604]

Great post, guys! I found a good option: Winamp 2.x + MuchFX


The MuchFX plug allows you to chain other FXS as:

Audioproc, Stereotool, Soundsolution, Enhancher, Octimax or Audiostocker.

[tonmeister]

Are there many radio/tv stations NOT using the Orban Optimod? (like the Aphex 2020 MkIII)

[Jesse Graffam]

Originally Posted by tonmeister

Are there many radio/tv stations NOT using the Orban Optimod? (like the Aphex 2020 MkIII)

There are not many TV stations actually using Orbans now. And their 8585 product really doesn't meet the mark, because it doesn't even have a path for synchronizing meta-data, much less doing something audio-related and worth while with it.

About 80-some percent of the market share for any digitally-capable TV studio is now either Linear Acoustic (over 70% market share), and Dolby taking up most of the remainder.
Solve DTV Loudness and Audio Problems Now with Products Chosen by the World's Leading Broadcasters

They have over 90% market share in sports and live-event channels & shows. You may have heard one of their processors on the last 4 (soon to be 5) SuperBowls, The Grammys, etc, etc, etc...

If you tune into the SuperBowl this year, and are getting audio as an AC3 stream, try adjusting the dynamics on your receiver. They will be using the CARBON this year... and the 1st year they will be using one processor for the event AND commercials. :D Real excited to hear how that comes out.
LINEAR ACOUSTIC - Products - CARBON


And to be fair, I have to add the disclaimer that I've been a part of its development over the last few years. Am I a fanboy too? Yuh.

[i604]

Found a link, click on chain: Soundprocessing.nl

[fenderbender.]

+1 for stereo tool (esp. the newer versions)


Also, check out AudioProc



IMHO, it seems like more and more radio stations, in their haste to get 'that sound', are really slamming the Mid (vs. side)...

[Adam Dempsey]

Last week, for a single, I had the option to choose (with the artist) from 4 mixes: main mix, vocal up 1dB, vocal down 1dB and vocal down 2dB.
Purely for temporary monitoring I ran it via a quick analogue EQ set up and a stupid amount of limiting. After careful comparisons it was clear the main mix was the one to run with, as the vocal on the other mixes either felt too "on top" or too distant.
Backed right off on the loudness side of things, fine tuned the EQ and the result sounds huge, 'in your face' yet nicely 'tied in'. It's a rare thing to have to do but if vocal balance is really in question it's a key issue and a fine line.

In the end, put more emphasis (no pun intended) on making it sound right, and let radio (a vastly moving target anyway) make it sound like radio. Plug-in, shmug-in.

Originally Posted by mhartung

I do understand that radio stations all try to have their own sound so there is no one size fits all.

Exactly (and worth repeating).

[initialsBB]

I wonder if you could record a song off the radio and using something like Nebula and the original recording of the same song, extract some kind of impulse response from a particular station.