Mono Compressor - Stereo Mix?

[Ca$h Marty]

(mastering noob alert)

I have a couple of external mono compressors/limters that I do not own pairs of. I was curious about techniques to run a stereo mix through them. OTB compression typically sounds a lot better than ITB (IMHO) - is it possible to use a mono compressor for this purpose?

I have been exporting the mix in the stereo file, then running the L channel through the compressor/limiter and then the R channel. Then combining the two files back into stereo. Obviously, the same settings on the compressor/limiter would be used for each channel. Sometimes it sounds right but others not.

Is this a terrible idea? Any suggestions? (Besides buying more stuff)

Much appreciated!

[Assistant]

you can split your stereo file into m/s and try to compress only the mid with one compressor and the sides with another.....
but you have to be careful that you don´t mess around with the sound too much, especially if you use 2 different compressors.
not the best way but could work, could not....

[Ca$h Marty]

Sorry I guess I was not clear. My question was to run a stereo mix through 1 single mono compressor. Pass the L channel through, then using the same settings, pass the R channel through. Then combine the two files back into stereo.

Secondly, I am familiar with M/S micing technique but you can encode a stereo mix into M/S? Where is a good point to learn this?

Thanks!

[Llitsor]

Originally Posted by Assistant

you can split your stereo file into m/s and try to compress only the mid with one compressor and the sides with another.....

In that case, you'd need 3 mono compressors, not 2.

----------

Anyway, I don't think you could really do this. Least of all for mastering. Using 2 individual compressors, even with absolutely identical settings dialled in, wont have a stereo link facility. Each side will be almost constantly responding in a slightly different way. You'd have some strange imbalanced effects going on. Left & right level differences, and possibly some phase issues too.

[Zownd]

go to brainworx site and get BX_control. (MS-Mastering Tools by Brainworx-Media)
If you own Waves you can use that (the S1)

usually the side is less loud and might not even make the needle move on your compressor

So I don't think this trick will work (maybe sometimes), unless you record the M channel first and then feed it to the sidechain of you compressor. so both channels react together.

cheers,
Mark

[Assistant]

Originally Posted by Llitsor

In that case, you'd need 3 mono compressors, not 2.

erm....no. why do you think that?
m/s is 2 channels, not 3.
one for mid and the second for side

and cash marty, yes you can convert stereo to m/s, there are many freeware tools out there that do this. or create your own m/s......

[Ca$h Marty]

I didn't mean to go off on a tangent on the M/S thing - but thanks for the info.

Does anyone have any insight on simply running each side of a stereo mix through a single mono compressor (same settings)?

Good idea? Bad idea?

[Zownd]

just try it,..

and maybe that sidechain idea I gave you was not a bad idea! you can use this on LR too! Otherwise you might get a weird balance and strange phasiness going on.

If one of the channels is the master, I think it might work.

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by Ca$h Marty

I didn't mean to go off on a tangent on the M/S thing - but thanks for the info.

Does anyone have any insight on simply running each side of a stereo mix through a single mono compressor (same settings)?

Good idea? Bad idea?

When you run L and R compression unlinked (i.e. run L and R separately), your stereo field will be widened and stereo balance may noticable tilt in places (depends on the material).
Encoding to M/S and compressing those separately instead of L/R (as Assistant suggested) will solve the problem of image shift/tilt, but it means that the mix will vary in width with program level. Depending on the source material, that may be better.

If the compressor has a side chain input, then you could feed the side chain with a mix of L and R while running each channel individually through the compressor signal path (great Idea, Zownd) and avoid any image shifting that way.


But.... if I were you, I wouldn't bother with any of that. Any benefit gained by using a nice outboard compressor over your ITB choices (what are they both, btw?) will likely be more than offset by the inability to audition your settings in real time. You'd be working partially blindly, you won't have direct feedback to guide your working progress and your mode of operation will be so complicated with delayed results that you may get caught up in it, overlooking other problems that would otherwise have been obvious. If I were you, I'd just get a stereo compressor or work with ITB alternatives.

[Llitsor]

Originally Posted by Assistant

erm....no. why do you think that?
m/s is 2 channels, not 3.
one for mid and the second for side

What exactly do you assist with?
You might treat the sides as a single channel. But its still 2. Stereo if you like. 2 + 1 = 3 last I checked.
But if you already had a stereo compressor kicking about in the first place, then the OP wouldn't need to ask about using 2 mono compressors anyway (Or rather, 1 mono compressor, used twice to treat left & right sides)

[Ca$h Marty]

Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering

But.... if I were you, I wouldn't bother with any of that. Any benefit gained by using a nice outboard compressor over your ITB choices (what are they both, btw?)

I have access to waves L1 and a some of the UAD compressors/limiters. Would this be better than my mono-lopsided OTB?

[Ca$h Marty]

Originally Posted by Zownd

If you own Waves you can use that (the S1)

I have the S1 - would you mind informing this noob about how to export to M/S? Then I suppose you run that through any comp/lim - then de-code the M/S back to standard stereo?

Thanks a lot - I didn't even realize that this was possible so I really appreciate it!

[Zownd]

Thanks a lot - I didn't even realize that this was possible so I really appreciate it![/QUOTE]

With the S1 comes the S1 MS-Matrix just insert it on to your stereo track.
Now it's still 2 channels : one being Mid and the other the sides (yes sides is one channel so no need for 3 compressors or 3 takes) you'll notice that one is much louder than the other! that is OK. Left (or the louder signal) is the Center and R is the sides.
now run both through your compressor (starting with mid channel, you'll have plenty feel on how to set it this way) After recording place the tracks side by side on a stereo channel.
Now insert the MS tool again and that was that! the downside is that S1 will drop your total level. as long as you stay in 24bits, you're still OK. With the BX it doesn't drop the levels

My guess is that your sides will be much louder (maybe even uncompressed) creating a "wider" stereo image

let us know what you come up with :-)

cheers,
Mark

[Ca$h Marty]

Badass - I am a huge fan of MS stereo recording but I never thought of the process in reverse.

Thanks a lot!

[huub]

Originally Posted by Llitsor

What exactly do you assist with?
You might treat the sides as a single channel. But its still 2. Stereo if you like. 2 + 1 = 3 last I checked.
But if you already had a stereo compressor kicking about in the first place, then the OP wouldn't need to ask about using 2 mono compressors anyway (Or rather, 1 mono compressor, used twice to treat left & right sides)

You do not know what m/s is..

Have a good day

[Zownd]

Originally Posted by Ca$h Marty

Badass - I am a huge fan of MS stereo recording but I never thought of the process in reverse.

Thanks a lot!

I used it quite a lot to EQ the sides or the mids.
but now with the BrainWorX processors I hardly use this method anymore.
Last time I put a transient modifier on the mid leaving the sides alone (actually even anti transient on that one)

cheers,
Mark

[corworld]

24 - 96 Mastering's post was right on. Use ITB compressors until you can rent, borrow, or buy a suitable stereo rig. Even an RNC would be preferable to what you are trying.

[Zownd]

Originally Posted by corworld

24 - 96 Mastering's post was right on. Use ITB compressors until you can rent, borrow, or buy a suitable stereo rig. Even an RNC would be preferable to what you are trying.

expiriments are always good. even if the results are cr@p,.. you'll learn from it.

[Assistant]

Originally Posted by Llitsor

What exactly do you assist with?
You might treat the sides as a single channel. But its still 2. Stereo if you like. 2 + 1 = 3 last I checked.
But if you already had a stereo compressor kicking about in the first place, then the OP wouldn't need to ask about using 2 mono compressors anyway (Or rather, 1 mono compressor, used twice to treat left & right sides)

no offence but maybe you should try out m/s compression before talking such crap here!
this is basic stuff! looks like YOU need some assistance on this subject!

it is 2 channels only, mid and side. then it get´s decoded back to stereo after that!
no need for compressing 3 channels.

[Assistant]

like robin said, itb compression seems like the better way to go....
it really depends on what type of mono compressors you have and what ad/da conversion you have.
so, what type of compressors are we talking about here?

[Led]

If your compressor has a sidechain input you can make a mono mix and key the compressor off that. Then when you compress each side seperaetly the compressor is still reacting to the same signal each time, which is the sum of both sides.

[Jazznfunk]

Ca$h Marty!

I don't know what outboard compressors You use, but i suggest to try compress Your mix ITB with plugins in various describet above methods, then decide and and choose best sounding one for outboard processing.

[wado1942]

I wouldn't do that. If the clock driving the ADC/DACs have ANY drift at all (and they do), you'll get phase shifts. I agree that you should use a plugin compressor. Or if you REALLY must use an outboard compressor for some reason, get an RNC 1773 or twelve. They're cheap and sound pretty good.