Your Terms and Conditions

[Joe_caithness]

one for the pros on here.

I am currently writing my Ts and Cs to protect myself as a self employed trader.

I have been trading for a few months now, and although I am getting a nice wad of work already, I recently spent two days on a project which was then cancelled, and I had no way of applying pressure for payment, or even partial payment for the time spent.

I have a rough draft of my Ts and Cs and would like to upload them to the site/include them in emails form this weekend.

But I would like to see/hear some tips from other people in the industry.

One specific situation I am trying to word, is that if the work is cancelled mid-way through the project, for whatever reason, I would like to legally be able to ask for a percentage of the quoted price. Anyone help me word this one?

thanks

Joe / Subsequent Mastering

[HookedOnHardware]

Originally Posted by Joe_caithness

one for the pros on here.

I am currently writing my Ts and Cs to protect myself as a self employed trader.

I have been trading for a few months now, and although I am getting a nice wad of work already, I recently spent two days on a project which was then cancelled, and I had no way of applying pressure for payment, or even partial payment for the time spent.

I have a rough draft of my Ts and Cs and would like to upload them to the site/include them in emails form this weekend.

But I would like to see/hear some tips from other people in the industry.

One specific situation I am trying to word, is that if the work is cancelled mid-way through the project, for whatever reason, I would like to legally be able to ask for a percentage of the quoted price. Anyone help me word this one?

thanks

Joe / Subsequent Mastering

Hi,

I'm pretty sure there is a whole thread devoted to this (if I remember correctly).

EDIT: What list of rules/guidelines/suggestions do you give clients before they book time?

Might not be exactly what you are looking for but it could provide you some food for thought (e.g. things you overlooked).

There are often threads in the moanzone in which people get screwed. Good advice is usually provided.

[masterizer]

Originally Posted by Joe_caithness

one for the pros on here.

I am currently writing my Ts and Cs to protect myself as a self employed trader.

I have been trading for a few months now, and although I am getting a nice wad of work already, I recently spent two days on a project which was then cancelled, and I had no way of applying pressure for payment, or even partial payment for the time spent.

I have a rough draft of my Ts and Cs and would like to upload them to the site/include them in emails form this weekend.

But I would like to see/hear some tips from other people in the industry.

One specific situation I am trying to word, is that if the work is cancelled mid-way through the project, for whatever reason, I would like to legally be able to ask for a percentage of the quoted price. Anyone help me word this one?

thanks

Joe / Subsequent Mastering

You could request a non-refundable deposit prior to starting, request full payment before starting ect. Have them also sign a contract stating that the money is non-refundable. Get a good lawyer to review the contract and make any legal changes.

The thing is that even if you have them sign a valid legal agreement that states they have to pay a percentage or full amount even if they cancel is that you will probably have to take them to court to recieve that money. Getting them to deposit ahead of time saves the headache of tracking them down afterwards.

You will still encounter problems because some people will try and cancel last minute. This is when your contract comes in handy and you have to say "sorry, but we had an agreement". Your time is worth money and if they don't show up they are still accountable for your time.

[Tropicana]

Same I do. Payment in advance. Minimum 50%

[Table Of Tone]

You can spend way too much time chasing money if your not careful!

Give em an MP3 of one of the tracks, forget about it and just move onto the next record.
If they don't pay, just think of it as practice and move on.

The music industry is full of flakey chancers so there will be the odd one that gets away.
That's just the way it is.

The clients will soon come back wanting the rest of their tracks, so you will get you fee in most cases.

Contracts and deposits put people off for sure!

If you're good, the clients will come and they will pay!

Good luck!

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by Joe_caithness

one for the pros on here.

I am currently writing my Ts and Cs to protect myself as a self employed trader.

Most of the Ts and Cs that companies dream up won't hold up in court for a minute. And of the rest, many will already be covered by national laws.

Remember that no terms or contract you write up (even if your customer explicitly agrees to them) can change existing law. The country you're in will likely already have very elaborate laws with regards to legally binding agreements, business conduct, consumer protection, etc. On the bright side, that means you may already be much better protected than you think. Just make sure that the client is always aware of what he's buying (what you will be charging).

The real benefit of Ts and Cs is that many people THINK they are always legally binding, so it may save you some hassle at some point by giving you better leverage. Whether that will offset the time and effort spent of making those Ts and Cs and then getting everyone to sign / acknowledge them is a different question though.
If you're thinking of having proper Ts and Cs, i.e. not just a bit of info about your preferred booking, billing and payment procedure, I think it's best to consult a lawyer.

(This is written with German / EU laws in mind. Things may be different in the US.)

[lerone]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

If you're good, the clients will come and they will pay!

This is it. But yeah just give em' a clip or mp3. Not much use to them unless they cough up. I might think a bit differently if it was a 10 cd hypnosis set or something of that ilk. I would be pretty pissed if I'd just finished it and they cancelled on me. Thats a fair few hours down the drain for sure. Rare circumstances though.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

I have been chasing two dead beats for a couple of years with nothing to show for it except some bills from my lawyer and the court

Behind door #1 a person still owes me about $400 for some mastering I did for him and his group. The day of the mastering session he conveniently left his checkbook at home and was in a BIG hurry to get the master tapes off to the pressing plant so he said he would mail me the check. Since I had done work for this person before and had gotten paid in a timely manner I was foolish enough to let him have the finished masters without check in hand. I am still trying to get him to pay us. He is currently out of work and has gone back to live with his parents

Behind door #2 a person had us do some tape to CD copying work for him. It turned out to be a much bigger job than either of us thought it would be and we kept telling him that the amount was creeping up and it was well over $1800. He kept saying go ahead. When we were finished the bill was almost $2000. I sent him an invoice and he called me and said that he did not have all the money but would be receiving a check at the end of the month and could pay us. He wanted to know if he could come over and pick up "a couple of the tapes and CDs" which he would pay us for on the spot. We said sure. So he came over "cherry picked" some tapes and CDs and left after paying us a small fee for the items he took. Days past, weeks past and then a month past and we called him and asked when he was coming back to pay us for the rest of the tapes and CDs. There was no reply after I left him a message on his cell phone multiple times. I sent him a registered letter, it was refused. I had my lawyer send him a registered letter and that too was refused. I finally had to take him to small claims court and pay some pretty substantial fees and he failed to show up and the judge said there was nothing he could do since the other person failed to show. I finally tracked this person down to a house in an affluent suburb and went to see him. The house was empty and he had just moved to the Southwest. He still owes me about $1800 and I have already spent over $300 trying to collect it. Next step will be a collection agency with about a 60% cost when the money is recovered.

I was young and trusting when these two events happened. Now nothing leaves our studio unless it is paid in full. I have pissed off a couple of clients but at least no one has stiffed us recently. I am convinced that the best policy is to get the money BEFORE you release the materials. If you are running a recording studio the best thing to do is to get 50% down BEFORE you set up one microphone or even turn the lights on and if the client does not want to give you the 50% then you should probably figure that you are not going to get paid. There are too many people in the world today that think nothing of stiffing you for your services since you are only charging them for your time and they don't think that is worth anything.

All the legal contracts in the world are only as good as the people agreeing to them and as has been pointed out sometimes there are already good laws on the books that will protect you. Make sure you DOCUMENT everything and keep all written correspondence and if possible a copy of any phone calls that are left on your answering machine or as voice messages on your cell phone.

Good topic!

[macc]

I've practically stopped doing clips and whatnot. Just too much hassle! The only exception is where I just don't like the smell of someone by email. Then I'll do a clip.

I trust people to pay and if they don't, I don't really lose out as I have learned they are the kind of person I don't want to work for anyway. They won't come back, and I've saved further hassle down the road. Everyone has paid since I stopped sending clips. People also appreciate the trust.

That's more for single releases, but for bigger projects it makes more sense to protect yourself a little. I send a few tracks to make sure we're going the right way, and show them how things will turn out. They're always willing to pay after that, so far anyway. In short I always hold *something* back that they can't do/create themselves (wav or DDP or whatever) until payment is made, but I don't make that totally blunt, like a demand. I just say 'right then, glad you like it. I'll get the rest over to you following payment and etc etc'.

The only people who haven't paid me are unfortunately my biggest client, who paid for everything - loads of work - until the last 3 or 4 albums. That hurts as they owe me a lot of money, but I had no reason to distrust them as they had always paid before. I have written the money off. Perhaps it will come back to me, if not then at least I know where I stand with them.

I dunno... IMO it's down to the ME to handle it and be flexible. You need to be ready to adjust your approach for each project/client/customer, in order to give a transparent and customer friendly service while protecting your arse.

Giving out a sheet saying what's what and expecting them to read it...? They're musicians, remember!

[lucey]

Exactly.

People skills are your job. Reading and qualifying each customer is part of the at-a-distance gig.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by lucey

Exactly.

People skills are your job. Reading and qualifying each customer is part of the at-a-distance gig.

I find it hard to do just that. Many times a remote client seems all sweetness and light but then the endless emails, slow or no payment lots of problems that never seem to get resolved.


It is easy to say "qualifying each customer is part of the at-a-distance gig" Buy how do you do what you do? How do you qualify someone at a distance? I am a really good judge of character (most times) but even up close and personal it is hard to read some people. So how do you do it remotely????Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks in advance!

[lucey]

Not sure how to explain it Tom but here goes...

I've always been a quick and accurate reader of people; at 20 I did door to door lobbying, sales jobs, etc. It's their tone, word choice, and the respect they offer, that tells about them. The goal is to hear them and relate to who they are, not project who they are by being fearful or excited. If you're a blank slate, they're all you can see. If you have doubts, ask a qualifying question or two. Too many questions and you seem clueless, just the right ones and you build a relationship right off the top. Don't go too far without a deposit, serious people pay up front.

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by lucey

I've always been a quick and accurate reader of people

We should have a annual GS Texas Hold em' tournament. Seriously...

[inlinenl]

I always follow my intuition ... I'll ask first time customers if they're okay with up-front payment after I have received the track(s) and have done a quick scan if they're okay to master.

If they can't use paypal or transferring takes some time & If my intuition tells me they're okay .. I'll do a full master and upload it so they can proceed without waiting to long .... ( single tracks only )

in the last 5 years it's been 1 track gone bad ....

I would like to be trusted if I would send out track .... If I would been questioned and mis-trusted it would be a reason to shop somewhere else ... I guess ..

the tone/speed off response/google the name ... and finally the track will tell you if they're okay and who you're dealing with ... IMHO

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

We should have a annual GS Texas Hold em' tournament. Seriously...

... but I'm no good at Poker ~!

[Bob Olhsson]

I just get a deposit before I start work and send parts after the bill is paid.

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

I just get a deposit before I start work and send parts after the bill is paid.

Pretty much the same here.

[inlinenl]

don't be afraid to fail ... you'll only learn from your mistakes ... in the end it's their bad karma ...

[aleatoric]

Has anyone ever put an audio tag on files being uploaded to clients for approval?

Sounds sort of stupid I know but kind of makes sense. Uploading clips seems like another option but often clients want to hear the fade out or intro or whatever.

Just brainstorming but what about simply putting a little audio tag (could be a low level voice saying mastered version or your studio name) every minute or so. This way clients would still be able to hear the whole song in question for approval but would definitely have to make payment in order to use the mastered track for anything.

Just a thought.

[macc]

You could use Voxengo beeper

[tonmeister]

one job recently I put about 6 or so brief silences in quiet sections , mainly fades - kept it from being really annoying.
sometimes waiting until payment has been processed before starting the job creates deadline issues

[Tarekith]

I always ask for money upfront before starting the work, saves me so much hassle chasing after payments. For singles I offer a full money back guarantee if they're not happy, and for albums I offer 50% refund. Never needed to refund any money though.

[aleatoric]

Originally Posted by macc

You could use Voxengo beeper

Cool! I just installed it. (its free for anyone wondering)

[Coyoteous]

I will not surrender or be taken alive!

Oh, wait... yeah...

first rule of business: the customer is always right

second rule: get the customer's money

- deposit or estimated full payment up front... balance or partial refund on or prior to delivery.