Digidesign RM1/RM2 for mastering?

[maxwelldub]

Hi guys, I'm in the market for a new pair of monitors, mainly for dance music mastering, and after missing out on a super cheap pair of dynaudio bm15a's I'm now looking at the Digidesign RM1 / RM2 monitors. They are designed by PMC which seem to be pretty respected and reccomended around these parts. Also they're fairly new, so I'm wondering if they incorporate some of new technology I might be missing out on with older monitors. Also digital INS seem like a nice bonus. Opinions?

Thx!

[hanuman]

I would certainly considerate them! What would be smart is to compare them with competitors and consider if you ever need to expand to 5/6/7/.1
I would not mind have 7 of those shining circle in my studio....

[lerone]

I wont be rushing to get them for mastering work, however I have not heard them, so it would be unfair to make any sort of judgement. PMC's are amazing though, I'm just not sure what happens when digidesign get 'involved'. The digital ins I wouldn't touch with a bargepole though! Not for critical listening. Unless they've teamed up with a company that design outstanding converters, I doubt theyd be up to the job. Why not take a look at the smaller offerings of PMC, Focal & B&W et al? They're not prohibitively expensive. Also, try going to AudiogoN audiophile classifieds, high-end audio auctions, hifi chat

There are some STUPIDLY good deals to be found on there (loudspeakers, amps, cables, DACs etc). Ebay for audiophiles! Some sellers get a bit arsey about shipping outside the US, but this can normally be sorted out, as long as you can have a quick chat on the phone / email to make sure its not a Nigerian scam. thumbsup

[jordanstoner]

I was actually the "product champ" of these monitors when I worked at Digi. Bottom line - they sound great. I loved mixing on them! They never caused me fatigue, and they were consistent at low volumes. I usually like Genelec 1030A's for translation - but after I tried the RM's, the Gene's became my "B" monitors. Gene's certainly aren't flat - but their infamous high-end detail was squashed by the RM's. Also, the RM's actually have nice bass, and their stereo imaging is super-tight. They actually remind me of the Dynaudio AIR 15's. Can't say enough good things about them. The only monitor I would choose above them for mixing is the Meyer HD1. If this is your mastering budget, there may be other choices for you - but you wouldn't find a more suitable mix monitor (I'm a mix engineer, so please take that into consideration).

I would consider getting the RM1's (the larger pair) rather than the RM2's, as there is a noticeable difference in the low end.

As for Digi's contribution - they worked with PMC to create an internal DSP chip that does the crossover filter between hi and low drivers... so you're actually going to be going to a digital crossover whether you use the digital or analog input. The chip they used was sourced from a 3rd-party... I can't remember exactly which one, but it was a very high quality converter, not the same that's in other Digi hardware. Other than that, it's PMC through-and-through. The digital input is limited at 96kHz, FYI.

[Llitsor]

Originally Posted by jordanstoner

I would consider getting the RM1's (the larger pair) rather than the RM2's, as there is a noticeable difference in the low end.

The RM2's are the larger models. RM1's are the smaller ones.

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I had a similar dilemma a few months ago. The RM's have a lot going for them. But I just didn't need nor want monitors with digital gubbins in them and ethernet sockets. Ethernet sockets on monitors!?? Sorry, im old fashioned and couldn't get my head around that..
Still, if that doesn't concern you, then i'd still go for the larger ones, especially for dance music, if for no other reason than the beefier amplifiers. You'll be glad of the extra clout and headroom.

You could also look at PMC TB2S AII's. Or the regular PMC TB2S's and use your own amp. I got the TB2S's and threw together my own Hypex based Class D amp for them, which delivers an easy 200+watts to the PMC's. Makes for a very nice combination. I wish they were front vented like the RM's (so I could place them a little further back, closer to the wall), but other than that, its all good thumbsup

[maxwelldub]

Wow fellas thanks for those responses, they were very helpful. I picked up a pair of RM2's this morning on the bay for $1400 US. Unfortunately that was about the most I could spend on monitors, so I'm hoping these do the trick. I'll also be picking up a Lynx L22 for a/d, d/a conversion to use with an Alta Moda Unicomp (demoing that next week) and will be using the AES outs for the monitors. I'll report back my impressions when I've got everything setup. Now for some room treatment!

Thx again!

Oh and I love your quotes Jordan!

[hanuman]

Congrats MTG and wow, what a good price.
extremely good catch!

[kjg]

that is a very nice price indeed. congratulations!!

[jordanstoner]

Very nice! I forgot to mention their small footprint - they're like 2/3's the width of what you'd expect.

The RM2's are the larger models. RM1's are the smaller ones.

Thanks for the correction. I should've remembered that.

Oh and I love your quotes Jordan!

Thanks!

[Assistant]

i heard the rm1 against my pmc db1s-a and liked the pmc´s much better, paid even less for the pmc´s.....

check out the pmc tb2 like mentioned before.

what´s the point of an a/d converter on the input, when the only reason for this is the digital crossover/amp inside?
if you would use the digital input, you could pass the internal converter but you would have to turn down the masterfader in the daw to control the monitor level, which i find a little bit too dangerous.
if something goes wrong or you load a new session and forgot turning down the fader before you press play,you would get full level....
are there any digital monitor controllers out there?i don´t know(maybe crookwood?)

on the icon system where i work at, the monitors get the signal from the xmon, which is controlled trough the d-command center section and this output is analog.
so who is really using the digital input?

makes no sense for me, please correct me if i´m wrong or don´t see the advantages.

[maxwelldub]

Taken from proaudioreview.com:

"Unlike analog active speakers, the Digidesign/PMC speaker converts the analog to digital to enable high frequency and low frequency control, as well as the crossover, bass-port emulation and speaker gain. The digital signal is converted back to analog before the final amplifier stage. Digital conversion allows for more efficient processing for EQ, gain and other DSP. Also, a well-designed digital active crossover can produce seamless crossover performance — without the artifacts of passive crossover networks.

(Many speakers companies convert analog to digital in their active speaker systems, and I can attest that many sound very good. But I have talked to high-end engineers who say that multiple stages of digital conversion within a speaker could have a subtle, perhaps audibly degrading effect that could offset the excellent crossover performance capable in a digital design. Food for thought.)"

on another note the reviewer of mix magazine said he noticed very little difference when a/b'ing the rm2s using digital and analog ins. I do find the conversion to be somewhat questionable but without having heard the monitors I can't comment on the difference. The setup works for me rather well however, as I'm on a budget and can't afford a converter card more than the lynx l22. I'll be using a tascam fw-1884 control surface w/ motorized faders which *should* keep me aware of the master fader position so I don't smoke my RM2s. Hopefully :o.

Hope that answers your question.

[jordanstoner]

There's also an attenuator on the back - to -15dB in 1 dB steps. A note about this - it will cut the audio out for a brief second when adjusting (because it's attenuating digitally, not in the analog domain).

The digital crossover allows for a more accurate filtering process. I think the roll-off is either a true 24dB / octave, or maybe as steep as 36dB... either way, that paired with the digital attenuation means there's fewer analog components doing this work, which makes for less noise and higher accuracy (theoretically anyway). Of course, you could argue that an extra conversion stage could add noise and quantization errors - but if you want to avoid a second ADC stage, then you at least have the option of doing so. Actually seeing these monitors being born, I know how much time and effort went into them and I believe they were done right - by both Digi and PMC standards... One of Digi's more under-appreciated products, IMO.

In the end, however, nothing matters until you actually listen to / use the gear. Hopefully you'll find your purchase well worth it and will enjoy them as much as I have.

[lerone]

I really would feel uncomfortable with working on loudspeakers with a digital crossover. I can see some potential benefits, dont get me wrong, I'm sure they sound fantastic, but the extra ad/da just seems a bit freaky to me.

[lerone]

Originally Posted by MTG

Taken from proaudioreview.com:

"Unlike analog active speakers, the Digidesign/PMC speaker converts the analog to digital to enable high frequency and low frequency control, as well as the crossover, bass-port emulation and speaker gain. The digital signal is converted back to analog before the final amplifier stage. Digital conversion allows for more efficient processing for EQ, gain and other DSP. Also, a well-designed digital active crossover can produce seamless crossover performance — without the artifacts of passive crossover networks.

(Many speakers companies convert analog to digital in their active speaker systems, and I can attest that many sound very good. But I have talked to high-end engineers who say that multiple stages of digital conversion within a speaker could have a subtle, perhaps audibly degrading effect that could offset the excellent crossover performance capable in a digital design. Food for thought.)"

on another note the reviewer of mix magazine said he noticed very little difference when a/b'ing the rm2s using digital and analog ins. I do find the conversion to be somewhat questionable but without having heard the monitors I can't comment on the difference. The setup works for me rather well however, as I'm on a budget and can't afford a converter card more than the lynx l22. I'll be using a tascam fw-1884 control surface w/ motorized faders which *should* keep me aware of the master fader position so I don't smoke my RM2s. Hopefully :o.

Hope that answers your question.

The L22 is a great ad/da. Same spec as the aurora. Can think of quite a few ME's who use em'. thumbsup