Pmc ib1s

[mosrite]

safeandsound,

you will not be hearing your PMC IB1 speakers properly until you run them with an amp that can drive them (I am not just saying this because I happen to be selling a Mark Levinson!)

They require a serious amp to work properly and cannot be judged in any way until then. Try getting a demo Bryston or borrow a proper amp from a friend to hear the difference.

It is not simply a case of getting a better amp to make them sound better, it is a case of getting a better amp for them to be able to work properly!

[Greg Reierson]

Originally Posted by petit panda

Surely you know better than to fall for "usable frequency response"?

Not worth the paper it's written on, especially when churning out speakers with specs of "29hz-25khz" (or in fact, ANY speakers) that in an anechoic chamber measure like this.

A different model, but still! Did you ever try them Bob?

A different model for sure! I agree specs are only an indicator of the user experience, but let's not muddy the waters with the specs of mid level hi-fi speaker when the discussion is about the professional line.


GR

[807Recordings]

Originally Posted by mosrite

safeandsound,

you will not be hearing your PMC IB1 speakers properly until you run them with an amp that can drive them (I am not just saying this because I happen to be selling a Mark Levinson!)

They require a serious amp to work properly and cannot be judged in any way until then. Try getting a demo Bryston or borrow a proper amp from a friend to hear the difference.

It is not simply a case of getting a better amp to make them sound better, it is a case of getting a better amp for them to be able to work properly!

It is funny when you say that because when I was doing reviews for a HI-FI magazine I had a pair of B&W 800 Natilus in. Was running the NAD Master Series which is much better than the regular NAD stuff. Stuck on the Classe amplifier with 50 less watts a channel and WOW what a difference. Fuller bass, bigger sound stage, etc, etc. Specs tell a lot but if your not reading all the right ones you will miss the point.

Get a good amplifier, at least for a trial.

[bassman]

You are looking for a magic bullet which does not exist. Specs are specs and really don't have any more meaning than the size of speaker driver to a speaker design. Gotta get the stuff in your room and listen. If you get results with gear that is less expensive, I am all for it. No need to pay for a name, or a spec. Pay for results, period.

That said, I use the 400 Hypex blocks for my PMC AB-1's and could not be happier. Came from a Bryston 3B, which is also very good for the PMCs. Speaker and amps are like married couples, some work and some don't....

-bassman

[807Recordings]

Stef if you are a mastering engineer you should be doing more time listening then reading specs.

Sorry, but that is how it goes.

[807Recordings]

Originally Posted by SafeandSound

Hi 807, I assume you mean Barry not Stef?

I am fully aware that I need to listen to equipment. (I suggested it in this thread
earlier). I also believe that it is wise to listen to components other than the
"standard" you own PMC you use Bryston/Classe, is it the unbreakable rule?

What is it that 1 amp is suitable and another is not, this must be quantifiable, we are talking electronics which is measureable at every level and may indicate why one device works over another.

As sound is so very subjective it is wise to do your own investigation, specs, listening, whatever you need to. I am just not a person who follows the flock
without looking into things myself. (frankly I cannot afford too).

Not always easy to get a given piece of equipment in your own room to audition.

Sorry I meant Barry ;-)

My point was simple. You can buy two cars the claim the same zero to 60 time but there is a difference. Measure the wrong information like engine size alone and you can miss the point.

We had in one of our studios the smaller PMC's. I forget the model type. Anyways we even ran them on some Bryston's but when we gave a Krell a go we found it suited the speakers better. Again it is subjective and there is various opinions. Nothing is perfect and there is just far to many variables to just read specs.

Thats my only point and much like I prefer BMW over Mercedes for cars you will have a tool that you find better also.

I would be curious to know how the Classe or Pass stuff sounds on those bad boys though.

[mosrite]

What is it that 1 amp is suitable and another is not, this must be quantifiable, we are talking electronics which is measureable at every level and may indicate why one device works over another.

And there lies the mystery... our ears and brain dont work on slew rates and wpc hence the fact that applying these to real world scenarios doesn't work. At most the specs should be used as a general guide. For instance, if you require a full range speaker then dont bother testing one that rolls off at 80hz.

One simple example I can give where specs alone do not tell the full story is when I compared the Mark Levinson no.331 to a brand new Bryston 4b sst. The Lev says it has 100wpc and the Bryston 300! However, set up side by side my DAC/Line Level attenuator was set to the same setting on both in order to get a matching listening level. Go figure.

[petit panda]

SafeandSound,

You are right, I reacted although not sure I overreacted. Sorry. To be fair, you did push my buttons with what I perhaps misinterpreted as being a rude and sarcastic and unnecessary post. All in my face because you think anything you don't understand is preposterous and illogical, or perhaps because you were miffed that the example I offered happened to show a major incompetently engineered speaker, even though this was NOT the main point to be read from that graph.

Let's discuss the point though - that graph IS relevant and does apply to the IB1s. Here is the logic: PMC use the same spec parameters for all their speakers and lines (proof = I have asked them, and you can see the specs of shared models of consumer and pro lines). Conspicuous by their absence are these conditions or parameters, which sets alarm bells ringing. You can therefore use any suitably measured PMC speaker response to understand the parameters used.

If you still don't get this, then just ignore my post and consider a few minutes of your time wasted and nothing else, because it was very useful for people who do understand speaker specs and measurements, and who were very much interpreting PMC specs as being fairly standard, not the exaggerated tricks for the uninformed that they are.

In the end, it seems your point is exactly the same as mine - that the specs are useless?!

Safeandsound/Mosrite,

The parameter you want here is amplifier gain, which would have been (near) identical between those 2 models and is nothing to do with impedance or amp power!

At least know the very basics of what you are talking about - or you end up barking up the wrong tree as well as barking at the wrong people.

[petit panda]

Originally Posted by SafeandSound

Another alternative is to request a full explanation of what "spec parameters" are and how they are the same for these 2 different speakers of differing dimensions, differing drive units, differing no. of driver units, differing X-over frequencies, differing no. of crossover frequencies, a nice floor standing TL monitor with 2 drivers and a 2 way X-over....

http://www.cinemaexperience.com/images/pmc_gb1i.jpg

and this...

A 3 way monitor using a 10" Nomex driver that only PMC manufacturer, dome midrange, 3 way crossover and not being of floorstanding design.

http://www.gz008.cn/qx/images/200801...9292548032.jpg

cheers

You still don't get it then, lol. Bye.