I've heard people comment that there was no difference in the sound after mastering.

[doug hazelrigg]

Originally Posted by Upawholestep

Finally, I sent something to one of these mastering companies to test it out. It came back almost the same as when I sent it. Just a little louder. No chances taken,

I suppose I'm a bit of an iconoclast when it comes to mastering, but in my mind it's not the ME's job at all to "take chances." Really, the ideal situation is where the ME doesn't have to do much at all

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by Tropicana

Yes and no. When I say that I know exactly what he means I am talking about my own experiences. I mastered thousands of albums and part of what you say is true. But then again, as a mastering engineer you can repair a lot of bad sounding mixes. But I also remastered many albums which were mastered in the first place by some masteringhouses from who you have to expect that they do a decent job at least.

I dont think the topic starter was trying to put his competition down.
After more then 15 years in the mastering business I came to the conclusion that many artists and a&r's looking more to the gear a masteringhouse has then that they listen to the results of it.

When a mix is so bad I tell my client to do it over or give him the service to mix it in our place.

We get that luxury less and less these days.

People just don't have the budget to remix stuff right now.
If you tell em their mix is bad, they'll take it somewhere else.

It's more like "Here's the mixes. Cut em!"

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by doug hazelrigg

I suppose I'm a bit of an iconoclast when it comes to mastering, but in my mind it's not the ME's job at all to "take chances." Really, the ideal situation is where the ME doesn't have to do much at all

You got that right!

[Tropicana]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

We get that luxury less and less these days.

People just don't have the budget to remix stuff right now.
If you tell em their mix is bad, they'll take it somewhere else.

It's more like "Here's the mixes. Cut em!"

I know and understand what you mean. But with the tools nowadays you can do a lot more "magic" then in the past.

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by Tropicana

I know and understand what you mean. But with the tools nowadays you can do a lot more "magic" then in the past.

There are loads of new tools out there but they're not all good.
There are indeed some gems though.

In the wrong hands, serious damage can be done!

[Tropicana]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

There are loads of new tools out there but they're not all good.
There are indeed some gems though.

In the wrong hands, serious damage can be done!

I said it wrong. There are nowadays SOME software tools who can easy compete with hardware tools and even are better. Well, thats mine opinion.

The wrong hands and the serious damage thing is a common thing in mastering and mixing land. Was also 20 years ago.

[abtech]

I think spending a lot of time mixing would be wasted if the ME is going to change the way the mix sounds. If I send something out to be mastered, I want it to sound identical to the way it sounded when I mixed it. The only things I want the ME to do is to maintain the sound of the mix on the release media. This may (or may not) involve a lot of work, but I don't usually spend several hours (or days or weeks) mixing something only to have someone else change it after the fact.

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by abtech

I think spending a lot of time mixing would be wasted if the ME is going to change the way the mix sounds. If I send something out to be mastered, I want it to sound identical to the way it sounded when I mixed it. The only things I want the ME to do is to maintain the sound of the mix on the release media. This may (or may not) involve a lot of work, but I don't usually spend several hours (or days or weeks) mixing something only to have someone else change it after the fact.

That's totally fair enough!

If a mix is good, the last thing I'd wanna do is change the sound of it!

Sometimes it's just a case of making the album flow, matching the volume of each tune and seriously checking the master, every step of the way.

I love getting an album of killer mixes!

[abtech]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

That's totally fair enough!

If a mix is good, the last thing I'd wanna do is change the sound of it!

Sometimes it's just a case of making the album flow, matching the volume of each tune and seriously checking the master, every step of the way.

I love getting an album of killer mixes!

Exactly! Most of the albums I work on are mixed over a period of at least several weeks. The levels tend to vary from one tune to another. When I edit the master tape, I always notate the loudest tune and ask that all of the selections are mastered within a couple of DB or so. Other than that, I certainly don't want any equalization, compression, limiting or D-Essing. I have already done all of that. My monitor system is every bit as good as any mastering facility and I don't need someone adding or subtracting anything after spending all the time getting the mixes right.

For vinyl, I know that certain physical limitations are involved and mix accordingly. For CD I always want the mixes to go unaltered but normalized in terms of level from song to song.

[KyleDiSanto]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike

The job of the Mastering Engineer is to make the recording sound it's best not just increase the volume of the material. If the recording at hand is terrible from the get go and can't be made to sound professional, then the mastering engineer need to state that or refuse to work on the material. Most engineers today are lazy, cheap, and have no formal training so they have no idea what a good recording truly sounds like. They like the proper gear, knowledge, and the proper training, unfortunately. Find a reputable Mastering Engineer/Mix Engineer/Tracking Engineer. You get the best of all three worlds combined. It's good to have an engineer who isn't scared to let you have it and tell you what is required of you to have a stellar recording. Most people today got plugins and are so money hungry that they'll tell you anything to get a dollar. Use common sense and choose people who got the credentials. If their is no difference in sound after mastering then either the track was mixed by one helluva engineer or the Mastering Engineer just said fuk it

This is such a great point. And the sad thing is that the Lazy guys are the ones getting all the money!

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by KyleDiSanto

This is such a great point. And the sad thing is that the Lazy guys are the ones getting all the money!

Lazy guys or the guys gettin' it right?

Restraint is a very important part of mastering!

Producers and clients trust me because they know that if an album of great mixes comes in, In not gonna f**k with em!

If an album of just OK mixes comes in, I'm gonna do whatever is needed to make em sound killer!

I'm gonna cover their tracks.
That's what I'm there for.

Even if all of the mixes are stellar, the record still has to be matched up, assembled, coded, delivered and checked at every stage.

That still takes time, care and attention.

[Chaellus]

if you mix is so good that its there....the mastering guys will listen to it..and if they dont feel they have to do anything but make a redbook cd then thats all they will do...sometimes nothing is needed but you are paying for their judgment.

[RedTuxedo]

Well some of the mastering engineers seem really lucky to only get great sounding mixes. Sorry to sound so arrogant on my initial post. If I get a great sounding album that need very little done, I do very little.

But this is my job, and I'm not going to get all pompous on a client and tell them that their music/mix is not good enough for me to work on.

One project I'm working on is a live board mix of a Brazilian band that is gaining popularity down there. It started off so thin that it was tough to even audition. Can't really tell them to go remix it, can I? 12dB of a massive bell curve at 120Hz... there is a surdo!!!

More massive low mid pushing and the vocal sounds real. A few more touches and it sounds passable. The client is thrilled.

Another project I had came in sounding great. Just a touch dull, but it was all the way up to 0dB peak and RMS was around 10. I barely touched it.

So in saying that, if it sounds great, it better come back from an ME sounding great. If it sounds like crap, it should not come back sounding the same, why shouldn't an ME make an effort and make it sound as good as it can?

I would say, 5% of my projects (maybe less) need nothing. 40% just need to go through the motions without trying to be a hero and screw things up. Sometimes I will ask if there can be some changes. Most of the time they cannot make the changes. These are the hardest ones IMO. Good mixes that just need the right processing. Then 50% of the stuff needs some creative technical moves and elbow grease. The last 5% need the bullet proof cape, soaring through the clouds, fight through 100 ninjas to get to the end. But those are the most rewarding.

[fenderbender.]

[QUOTE=macc;4483291... Someone...once said 'half of people expect things to come back sounding the same, the other half expect it to come back sounding different. Make sure your ME knows which side you're on' or something to that effect.[/QUOTE]



+1

[lucey]

The ME will hear if it needs a little or a lot based on who they are, and perhaps with some help from you. This is generally not a tricky balance to find, in actual practice. Talking about it here is harder than doing it.

[Ecktronic]

I believe the ME is there as an outside set of ears.
Bands, producers and artists can get too close to their Mixes from spending so much time on them, so a good ME can give advice on the Mix and also make sure it can sound good on most play back systems.

Eck (G)

[George Necola]

I am not mastering. by no means.

If I send in a mix of mine I expect the mastering engineer working with it. I usually have a bit of a bassproblem (room... :( ), topend wrong, but a good balance.

I expect him to fatten up the bass-area, take away the rumble, make it loud, sweeten the midrange

a lot to do...

[First Aid]

just take it as a compliment to your mix

[Table Of Tone]

If you don't hear a positive difference when I master your stuff, you might wanna crack open that bottle of vintage Zinfandel you've been sitting on for the last 10 years!

Well done my friend!

[Ear Candy]

I think that sometimes the clients may have a false perception of what mastering is or can do for them. A lot of them think they can be sloppy in the mix, and the ME will fix it all later. But yes, a mastered track should sound better than before (not just louder, which is generally easy to do). And if the ME thinks there is nothing he can add to the track, tell the client - he'll be happy you were honest with him/her.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by abtech

I think spending a lot of time mixing would be wasted if the ME is going to change the way the mix sounds. If I send something out to be mastered, I want it to sound identical to the way it sounded when I mixed it. The only things I want the ME to do is to maintain the sound of the mix on the release media. This may (or may not) involve a lot of work, but I don't usually spend several hours (or days or weeks) mixing something only to have someone else change it after the fact.

By simply mastering a track it can "change the sound" even if it is bringing up the level of the track to match the rest of the album or getting rid of some really bad DC offset or some some subsonic noise that maybe the mix engineer did not notice due to an inadequate monitoring setup.

Most professional mastering engineers subscribe to the notion of "do no harm" when they are mastering.

I don't think any professional mastering engineer would take on project and change the sound of the mix without approval from the client and if they did do this and word got out they would soon start losing clients.

I really prefer to have the client in attendance if at all possible as I find that communication is much better if we are both in the same room.