My attempt at outboard processing has failed!

[j-madd]

Hi all,

I have been doing ITB mastering (like 3 jobs in the last year). I have always stayed ITB and actually have been pleased with the results as have the clients. This month I said " I want to start doing some OTB processing". I bought an API 2500 after lots of research on good analog compressors and based on budget.

So, I set everything up and begin running old premasters through the API. Here is where I think I am shooting myself: my convertors are a presonus firepod (yes I know, flame away!). It is really F***ing up the sound. The mixes suddenly sound 2D and the spacial imagining disappears. I don't think its the API cause it sounds like crap when the unit is hard-bypassed. I can't afford good convertors right now so, I am left with a stereo tracking compressor to use on my own recordings. I hardly even record anymore.

I feel so stupid for trying to go analog. One of my friends told me he thinks the firepod insert returns actually go through the preamp in the unit! I have already turned in the warranty card on the 2500, so I think It would be impossible to return to the store. Maybe I should just save up and get some better convertors and keep the API? I dont know, I am an idiot.

Justin

[aleatoric]

Yea, that is the whole thing with going outboard. You need to get mastering grade converters before you can even use your shiny new analog outboard unit properly without degrading the audio and in your signal path. If I where you I would keep the API 2500 in a closet or something until you can spring for a HEDD or some Lavry blues or something. You are half way there. Its tough when you first go outboard because the comp you want is 2.5k and the converters you will need to use that comp in a mastering situation are roughly the same. Basically its a 5k investment just to use your first single mastering grade outboard analog piece. Good luck!

[alcopop]

return comp for lynx aurora 8 and tk audio bc1 ?

[jamescater]

How much gain reduction are you doing on the API unit ?

On the 2 bus you may only need 0.5-1db of gain reduction, not the 2-4 db you might use in the box.

I have a Prism MLA-2 and it has a VU meter which is adds it's magic when pushed lightly. Remember your digital plugings often show peak reduction and so 2-4db on a Waves RComp is very different to 2-4db on the API.

Try some light compression to gel the mix and don't use the compressor to give you more RMS, it should be there to give you a great tone and gel the stuff together.

I always remember Brian Lucey's comment on how much compression/limiting you should use on the master bus, his reply was something like this...
"As little compression as possible, as much limiting as required."

[Cellotron]

Just because you have a high quality analog processor available to you doesn't necessarilly mean it should be used for mastering a particular track. In other words - if the tracks were already compressed appropriately adding more compression in the analog realm would be detrimental to them. Next - there's lots of options with the controls of the 2500 for shaping the sound - just enough figurative rope to hang yourself in fact. Best thing is to spend some time with the unit learning what it works well for and what settings work to achieve what results.

Anyway - I love my API 2500 and don't know of any digital compressor that can truly achieve its sound. I agree with other posters that having better DA and AD converters for your analog processing loop will improve the sound of the results - but having the appropriate settings for the compressor itself (including even sometimes not having it patched in the processing chain!) will get you a good bit more towards getting you the sounds you want that just improving your converters.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[macc]

I had a similar thing once upon a time. I got a mytek stereo 96 ADC that allowed me to

A) capture the sound better

and

B) clock everything from it, meaning DA to both the outboard and to the monitoring was improved. It really really helped.

Getting better convertors all round since then takes it a step further, but I have been there and that helped me soooo much. When you haven't got £x million to spend you have to get there little bit by little bit. One piece is in place. No point having great convertors without something to feed, no point having great outboard without something to feed it with. Chicken/egg... at least the process has started.

[chironomidae]

I bet even an EMU 1212m or a Lynx L2 would be fine. doesn't need to be big, just needs to be good. Would be a bitch using it cause they don't have inserts, but it'd be better than nothing.

[j-madd]

Thanks guys,

Now that I have cooled off a little, I think I will keep the 2500. I will use it for just tracking right now and when I get more money for converters, I will upgrade (I'm thinking Lavry blue). Then it can have a chance to be used for mastering.

My fears are right regarding the firepod, turning up the gain on the return channels gives me more volume, so the insert returns on channel 1&2 are hitting the preamps on channels 1&2. This is far from a clean signal for an analog loop.

The firepod does have SPDIF out and in. Am I correct to assume that sending the stereo track out via SPDIF---> D/A converter--->API 2500--->A/D converter---> firepod will bypass all the crappy gain staging and conversion that is currently destroying the audio? Also, SPDIF is stereo out and in? Thanks for the encouragement!

Justin

[engmix]

Good converters will be the most noticeable positive difference you can do for your room, especially when going out to outboard and back. So you're probably doing the right thing to keep the api, and then upgrade your converters.

If you can return the api and put that money toward better converters, personally i would gun for that. Then you have a good foundation to build off of.

[heathen]

I'd save up for good converters and learn how to use your API in the meantime, becoming familiar with a particular piece of gear can take quite a while, especially something with as many buttons as the 2500. Finding the sweet spot is where it's at.

[cooker]

Hi justin,

there's a test that many have been waiting for some time now:

Kenny and Ethan Convertor Test - Part II

If the results come as some people claim then maybe (though this will still depend on your expectations) you might not have to wait too long.

By the way congrats on your purchase and sorry it didn't work as you expected. Try to be patient as I think it will be best keeping it if you can.

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by cooker

there's a test that many have been waiting for some time now:

Many who rely on conversion with excellent fidelity on a daily basis would already have done these test.