Please reccomend recent well mastered but LOUD

[Joe_caithness]

So, after having a client ask me for ONE LOUDER on and already 500000 louder master I did for them, I am looking at getting some genre specific extreme example of acceptable (I guess I mean no obvious distortion or un-ease of listening) but really freaking loud masters.

I have a really good benchmark for Dubstep and spacious bass heavy dance music (courtesy of Jason @ Transition, big up!), which isn't loud at all, but I know that if I get it louder with a similar tone, Im doing ok!

I am lacking a modern rock/punk reference, an extreme metal reference I can rely on(I do a lot of stuff related to this and the trend seems to be ULTRA BRIGHT, not so nice imho) and a vocal house reference.

Any help appreciated

feel free to discuss reference choice salso

[It'sJoeAgain]

Originally Posted by Joe_caithness

So, after having a client ask me for ONE LOUDER on and already 500000 louder master I did for them, I am looking at getting some genre specific extreme example of acceptable (I guess I mean no obvious distortion or un-ease of listening) but really freaking loud masters.

i wuld serve him dog poo with chocolate fudge on top (or any cake icing) n' on a golden plate..if he doesn' get it... then ur gonna be needin my shrink's phone number for that one...

[heisleyamor]

Originally Posted by Joe_caithness

I have a really good benchmark for Dubstep and spacious bass heavy dance music (courtesy of Jason @ Transition, big up!), which isn't loud at all, but I know that if I get it louder with a similar tone, Im doing ok!

You will NOT get a similar tone if you're going to crush the transients. The more you limit/compress, the worse it's going to sound. Tell your clients to turn the volume up or compromise with them.

[Joe_caithness]

Originally Posted by heisleyamor

You will NOT get a similar tone if you're going to crush the transients. The more you limit/compress, the worse it's going to sound. Tell your clients to turn the volume up or compromise with them.

Well I wasn't looking for advice on fixing the problem, I know how to deal with it in my own way, I was looking for a reference to show clients in future alongside their masters to show them why you can only go so loud with it sounding good. I probably didnt make that clear.

Plus it's worth pointing out that that master (the one mastered at Transition) is particulary un squished, it's an exception and I use it as such, it's the lower bracket of loudness for that particular scene.

[Joe_caithness]

Originally Posted by It'sJoeAgain

i wuld serve him dog poo with chocolate fudge (or any cake icing) on top served on a golden plate..if he doesn' get it... then ur gonna be needin my shrink's phone number for that one...

Well, that's how it would sound, I am actually waiting for an email back from said client about the project as it is very loud and I basically said "i can make it a bit louder, but it will sound crap and you will suffer because of it" Im not at the point financially I can tell people to go swivel unfournately


ANYWAY I am after reference reccomendations not general mastering advice thanks!

[It'sJoeAgain]

Originally Posted by Joe_caithness

ANYWAY I am after reference reccomendations not general mastering advice thanks!

wat souns loud to some, soun sh*t to others n' souns heaven to headbangers n' soun scooby doo to engineers...as soon as u start slamming dynamics against a brick wall theres no logic only *taste* (subjective crap) .

[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by heisleyamor

You will NOT get a similar tone if you're going to crush the transients. The more you limit/compress, the worse it's going to sound. Tell your clients to turn the volume up or compromise with them.

they could stand nearer the speakers,....


i'll get may coat

[sanddigger1]

I'm listening to a lot of punk / hardcore /metal stuff, and my work is mainly on records of these styles too. You may avoid too obvious distortion, but not ear fatigue. This styles are about giving a massive 'wall of sound' effect from the start, that works better if the master isnt squashed. By pushing loud, you add nothing if the songs have been properly mixed, you just make them flat and fatiguing. I know this isnt the kind of answer you're looking for, but all recent very loud records in those styles I've heard are flat, lifeless, very tiring to listen to and in most cases, there's a lot of ugly digital distortion. I wouldnt use any of them as a reference. The ones that sound good are not very loud...

[Joe_caithness]

Originally Posted by sanddigger1

I wouldnt use any of them as a reference. The ones that sound good are not very loud...

well, we as MEs know this.

but the client does not, and they don't pay me to tell them they are objectively wrong in their opinions!

[cooker]

I don't have any references but just for a name, triviums shogun album (metal) is pretty loud without distoring too obvious compared to some other stuff around.

Why not check out Ted Jensens works? I guess he's the first to come to mind when a loud master is wanted...

[Silver Sonya]

This request is absolutely puzzling to me.

- c

[Groove Dog]

one of my favorite sounding rock albums in the past couple years is Deerhoof's "Friend Opportunity". it's pretty damn loud and huge. it's also got some of the best rock guitar and interesting kick sounds i've heard in forever.

[doug hazelrigg]

The latest Green Day record is an example of one that's loud and big but not so bad it causes quick ear fatigue

[Kayo]

To me .. Guitar God - Steve Vai’s “Sex & Religion”, is the one to beat in the Rock genre! Period…..
Simply amazing, raw, big, fat, punchy, powerful, animalistic. Rmarkably organized and assembeled chaos, on disc.

When it first came out, I felt, I was listening to Future Rock. Floored… completely.

Mastered by Bernie Grundman: I rest my case…….

Ciao,
KAyo

[sammyp]

Originally Posted by Joe_caithness

So, after having a client ask me for ONE LOUDER on and already 500000 louder master I did for them, I am looking at getting some genre specific extreme example of acceptable (I guess I mean no obvious distortion or un-ease of listening) but really freaking loud masters.

I have a really good benchmark for Dubstep and spacious bass heavy dance music (courtesy of Jason @ Transition, big up!), which isn't loud at all, but I know that if I get it louder with a similar tone, Im doing ok!

I am lacking a modern rock/punk reference, an extreme metal reference I can rely on(I do a lot of stuff related to this and the trend seems to be ULTRA BRIGHT, not so nice imho) and a vocal house reference.

Any help appreciated

feel free to discuss reference choice salso

The best mixes/masters in heavy music.....Rammstein!!!! Reise Reise and Rosenrot are the latest albums!

[Joe_caithness]

Originally Posted by Groove Dog

one of my favorite sounding rock albums in the past couple years is Deerhoof's "Friend Opportunity". it's pretty damn loud and huge. it's also got some of the best rock guitar and interesting kick sounds i've heard in forever.

it's also got great songs on! I might look into this one for definite!

thanks for all the replies which are actually about good sounding loud metal albums!

[reggiesears]

If You're Looking For Something LOUD and Crappy Sounding, Check Out That New Metallica Disc...
Something Loud And Great Sounding?? Try Horrorscope by Eve 6.

[domokunrox]

Originally Posted by Joe_caithness

well, we as MEs know this.

but the client does not, and they don't pay me to tell them they are objectively wrong in their opinions!

This interesting.....

Are we all to assume that MEs out there no longer have a qualified 2nd opinion as part of their service?

Try not to act like lawyers, guys. Leaving the dishonesty and lying to that profession.

Just because you get paid doesn't mean you're not allowed to take pride in what you do.

[It'sJoeAgain]

Originally Posted by domokunrox

This interesting.....

Are we all to assume that MEs out there no longer have a qualified 2nd opinion as part of their service?

Try not to act like lawyers, guys. Leaving the dishonesty and lying to that profession.

Just because you get paid doesn't mean you're not allowed to take pride in what you do.

word up Ya!.. when u lie to ur client(s) ur only lyin' to urself... then later on..it comes back to ya...

[the heretic]

anytime people ask about a loud but awesome metal album, I always come back to The Sound of Perseverance by Death. If you want extreme metal, Show them Behemoth's Apostasy as an example of the destruction that most death metal guys do to masters. Or even Death Cult Armageddon by Dimmu Borgir, HUGE sounding album, but the transients are just totally flat.... the snare sounds like a cough....

[Adam Dempsey]

Originally Posted by sammyp

The best mixes/masters in heavy music.....Rammstein!!!! Reise Reise and Rosenrot are the latest albums!

Every time I read or hear that name I remember how much softer and mushier they sounded back to back against Men At Work, on FM radio.

Tool manage to sound loud, with retained punch, and without smashed levels. I've never known anyone to complain that Tool are not loud enough on CD. Perhaps any album that makes you WANT to turn it up and really exercise your speakers' efficiency, rather than turn it down due to clipping or over limiting, should qualify as a "loud" album.

[Ben F]

Anything from Mike Marsh at the Exchange- 'Empire of The Sun' for example. Loud, bright, still sounds pretty cool. Not ridiculously loud though.

I should add that loudness is mostly to do with the mix. If done properly level in mastering is easy.

[lerone]

Originally Posted by Ben F

Anything from Mike Marsh at the Exchange- 'Empire of The Sun' for example. Loud, bright, still sounds pretty cool. Not ridiculously loud though.

I should add that loudness is mostly to do with the mix. If done properly level in mastering is easy.

The change is TOP NOTCH. Another contender would be death magnetic. That is truly the pinnacle of loud fidelity.




Nah.

[tribeofenki]

Municipal Waste .

The Band, not the service... seriously.


dfegad Green Day

[Table Of Tone]

Songs For The Deaf/QOTSA

Loud but punchy as hell!

That'll be Brian Gardner!

Speakerboxxx/The Love Below/Outkast

That'll be Bernie and Brian!

[Ecktronic]

If you want a loud Master that sounds clear then a good tip is to keep the low end down and tight at Mixing stage.
Also I'd say how clean the recordings or samples are is an important part in getting a loud but clear Master.
And not to forget the quality of limiter and/or clipper is a big part also.
Digital clipping can sometimes work well!

A good example is "Foo Fighters" album "Echoes silence patience and grace". (For loud new rock music)
The dynamics are a bit extreme for my likings but that could be part of how they managed to get such an overall clean sounding album.
By that I mean going from quiet to loud kind of squashed not just the transients in the overall Masters.
(A good perception trick)

Eck (G)

[Ecktronic]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

Songs For The Deaf/QOTSA

Loud but punchy as hell!

That'll be Brian Gardner!

Speakerboxxx/The Love Below/Outkast

That'll be Bernie and Brian!

QOTSA and SOAD tend to get to -6dB RMS at times! Which might be a bit extreme in my opinion!!

Eck (G)

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by Ecktronic

QOTSA and SOAD tend to get to -6dB RMS at times! Which might be a bit extreme in my opinion!!

Eck (G)

Yep!
They're both pushing the boundaries alright, and I definitely wouldn't go any louder than those records myself, but my point is that those records do sound really good!
I think the problems come when you've got lesser ME's trying to get that kind of balls on lesser gear, from lesser mixes etc.

I am indeed a big fan of both Brian Gardner and Bernie Grundman's work!