Judge My Master / Tips please

[alasdair]

Please take a listen to my master below

juststart09 0.001 chorus 1.mp3 (first version) http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?gzynnzmztjz (newer version)

I'd very much like to pickup some tips and ideas, what is it lacking, how can i solve it etc.

Thanks

[chironomidae]

It's best to post a 44.1kHz/16bit wav clip, about 30 seconds long (can't exceed 6mb)

[cooker]

also the mix would be healthy too (in .wav) as seems from what you posted your mix exceded its loudness potential.

[alasdair]

The Mix - pre master

juststart09 0.001 chorus mix.wav (28.92 MB) wav

[alasdair]

juststart09 0.002 chorus 1.mp3
I think that sounds a bit less squashy, but does it sound as full?

[masterizer]

Originally Posted by alasdair

juststart09 0.002 chorus 1.mp3
I think that sounds a bit less squashy, but does it sound as full?

It sounds like your're on the right track, to me it sounds like it is lacking a touch of high-mid/highs, maybe just back off on the lowpass.

[alasdair]

Good point, I'll play around with those, mixwise The snare probably isn't as loud as I'd like either..

[It'sJoeAgain]

when i herd the mix the word poo came to mind.....the soun is unnatural...it's almos like everythin was drownd in a verb chamber...the lead vocals souns too wet...the drums shuld be much bigger too...... n' WTF is wrong wit taht bass guitr Ya??

[miro]

hmmm...juststart09 0.002 chorus 1.mp3...to me it's very indefined.
don't like the reverb on the vocals. also to me it seems that the vocals don't leave any room to the rest. would like to hear an instrumental to tell more
allthough the drums+guitars etc=mud, mud, mud....i have to concentrate REALLY hard to hear each element.

as mentioned above, to much of all in the (upper) mids.

definitely needs an overall better EQing.....!!!

last word: i really think the vocals are the main problem.
i'd keep the main vocal more "compact" and the stereo back-vox a bit lower
and less harsh EQ but instead some gentle nice high end eq...

good luck with it!


p.s. i believe uploading an instrumental could make things a bit more obvious whats the prob in the mix

[cooker]

See thats why its always good to post the mix too...

I agree with Joe, seems like you placed too many plug-s on everything? there are many things going on in the mix and if you want everything to be heard you must aim to a more open sound. Also though I'm not sure, there might be some phase problems going on, you might want to check out the guitars...

If you're not in a rush, maybe it would be nice to give a small break and later listen to the tracks individually, there are many nice albums that you can take reference to see whats wrong and what to do about them.

[alasdair]

Originally Posted by It'sJoeAgain

when i herd the mix the word poo came to mind.....the soun is unnatural...it's almos like everythin was drownd in a verb chamber...the lead vocals souns too wet...the drums shuld be much bigger too...... n' WTF is wrong wit taht bass guitr Ya??

are you talking about the 28megabyte mix or the master, cuz i think in the master i added too much reverb to the signal, about 9 or 10 percent of the signal is mastering reverb.

By "bigger" on drums what do you mean?

The bass is scooped a bit might be what you're referring to..

Thanks

[edup]

Originally Posted by miro

hmmm...juststart09 0.002 chorus 1.mp3...to me it's very indefined.
don't like the reverb on the vocals. also to me it seems that the vocals don't leave any room to the rest. would like to hear an instrumental to tell more
allthough the drums+guitars etc=mud, mud, mud....i have to concentrate REALLY hard to hear each element.

as mentioned above, to much of all in the (upper) mids.

definitely needs an overall better EQing.....!!!

last word: i really think the vocals are the main problem.
i'd keep the main vocal more "compact" and the stereo back-vox a bit lower
and less harsh EQ but instead some gentle nice high end eq...

good luck with it!


p.s. i believe uploading an instrumental could make things a bit more obvious whats the prob in the mix

I second this, it seems the vocal is right in your face whether you want to listen to the instrumental or not... I think the drums should be brighter back down vocals leave some space for the instruments, I liked the guitars so maybe some minor eqs here and there, the reverb .... too much.... it sounds like if the artists is in a different room than the band playing simultaneously in different locations, and the kick, should be heard in every single speaker if you're mastering, that is the purpose, right now im on my laptop and can't hear it, try cutting some frquency and open up room for the kick so that it's not just felt but also heard

[It'sJoeAgain]

Originally Posted by alasdair

are you talking about the 28megabyte mix or the master, cuz i think in the master i added too much reverb to the signal, about 9 or 10 percent of the signal is mastering reverb.

Yo..i heard the " juststart09 0.002 chorus 1.mp3" tahts wah im talkin bout...

By "bigger" on drums what do you mean?

make 2 sub mixs : sub group ur guitars (including bass) n' the vocal(s), now lower these 2 subs by say -2dB..... then on tha vocal trk get a HPF n' kill everthin below 200 mayb evn 260Hz, add 2 dB boost at 8K then kill tha reverb on it...now listen to tha diff.

The bass is scooped a bit might be what you're referring to..

mo' energy ovr ther is needed........

[alasdair]

ok! thanks everyone for ideas so far, here is 4th version

juststart09 0.004 chorus.mp3

i Lowered the guitars by 1db and the bass also by 1db, thinking about it maybe 2 was the right way now lol

The vocals now sound a bit small since I took a load of reverb off them, (vocal 2 has a nasty bit of sibilance on it i need to sort out)

still very much work in progress, but I have 8 other tracks like this and by receiving your tips on this one helps me with the other 8.

Thanks guys

[It'sJoeAgain]

Originally Posted by alasdair

ok! thanks everyone for ideas so far, here is 4th version

juststart09 0.004 chorus.mp3

i Lowered the guitars by 1db and the bass also by 1db, thinking about it maybe 2 was the right way now lol

The vocals now sound a bit small since I took a load of reverb off them, (vocal 2 has a nasty bit of sibilance on it i need to sort out)

still very much work in progress, but I have 8 other tracks like this and by receiving your tips on this one helps me with the other 8.

Thanks guys

sound better...hard to tell wit 192Kbps dough...that said i would raise tha threshold of vocal compression n' make up by another dB...then try to bring up some mids with bell filter (roun 4k-10k) to entire mix...i also feel the ride cymbls ar a bit loud..can u lower 'em a tad or not??

[miro]

alright alright...much closer to how it maybe should be
there's something wrong about the vocals still. i think they need to be EQ'd
much better (maybe try another different EQ...which are you using btw?)
because, for me who doesnt know the song (as much as you surely do) barely understands what you're saying and that's a bad sign! imho the vocals need different EQ...something that's "there"...now all they have is a high end which isn't a "nice" high end (interfearing with cymbals etc)...what i'd try is bring in some sexy and warm mids on them and maybe compress them more afterwards. that's my guess

[miro]

P.S. how strong are the guitars panned to L/R? could be more clear (and stand out esp. since were talking about a chorus part) aswell!

[alasdair]

Originally Posted by It'sJoeAgain

sound better...hard to tell wit 192Kbps dough...that said i would raise tha threshold of vocal compression n' make up by another dB...then try to bring up some mids with bell filter (roun 4k-10k) to entire mix...i also feel the ride cymbls ar a bit loud..can u lower 'em a tad or not??

Ride cymbal, it was right underneath the overhead, makes it quite difficult to lower in level, without lowering the washiness of the crashes and overall level there, is that just the first hit on the ride bell?

I've processed the vocals as requested, upped the mp3 quality to 250kpbs too, it'll be up in a minute.

[alasdair]

Originally Posted by miro

P.S. how strong are the guitars panned to L/R? could be more clear (and stand out esp. since were talking about a chorus part) aswell!

Quad tracked rhythm guitars there, 2 panned each side, hard left and right

[alasdair]

juststart09 0.006 chorus.mp3

Latest one with the changes from joe and miro

Thanks

[miro]

Originally Posted by alasdair

juststart09 0.006 chorus.mp3

Latest one with the changes from joe and miro

Thanks

e ok heard it again...
to me the vocals haven't changed much! tutt
still don't hear the words very good. be more brave in EQing them different it's really about seperating them to the rest of the mix (the main vocals are also too much in the same freq range as the back voc's!) the back voc's are ok but the main one doesn't do it...they are too much in the back. bring in the mids to get em closer imo. not high mids, i mean mid-mids (something between 800Hz-1.5kHz) at LEAST 2-3 dB without having a louder level though.


p.s. don't know which EQs you're using ..but what i'm talking about is a nice warm EQ such as some programs of nebula and boost the presence-mids...would surely help alot!

[miro]

wait a minute...let me get this straight. i was thinking you were working on the mix but your topic was help me in the "mastering"...hmmmm.
so, are you just remastering the song and not working on the mix? hopefully not

[It'sJoeAgain]

the lead vocals need more compression n' eqin (experiment a lili) Ya.....mo' compression so u can level them better n' not have 'em dip in som parts undrstnd?? ...anotha thing i would change is the soun of the snr, more compression on it yields mo' snap... n'... i woul also eq boost it at 2.5kHz to add mo' presence...if u can't control the drums individually ur screwed...

Edit; that was 5k not *2.5kHz*..sorry

[alasdair]

Originally Posted by miro

wait a minute...let me get this straight. i was thinking you were working on the mix but your topic was help me in the "mastering"...hmmmm.
so, are you just remastering the song and not working on the mix? hopefully not

initially it was about the mix, but you guys have been helping me find flaws in my mixes too which is helpful too, and ways of correcting them, but I did want tips on mastering too I suppose.

[alasdair]

boosted mids more now on my vocal, but i think it sounds a bit unnatural now, not sure... lead guitars went up a tiny bit, bass and guitars down a bit too.

juststart09 0.007 chorus mix.mp3

[It'sJoeAgain]

aight.....it doesn' sound like wier gonna accomplish alot fiom here on out...the tools ur using for both mixin + masterin are imo not smooth enough..u need som analog spice, feel me?? i hear this friggin harshness man i don' knoe if it's the limiter ur usin to slam the mix levels or somethin, but is ther Yo...now it is soundin lot better than ur first version (a/b to confirm taht).....i think u have unneccessary sub sonic content dough...roll all that off ya....use HP filter, try 20Hz or even 28Hz...also, u have all these back up vocals, do somthin wit 'em man! pan then hard left hard right so they are separate from ur lead...otherwise me thinks u've taken the mix as far as it goes with tools u have...

[miro]

hey again..
dude, i'm really really sorry to tell you that i still just understand 50% of what you're singing no idea if it's the vocal recording or whatever but i'm sure it can be fixed. it is important that guys like me who don't know the song understand at least 80-90% of what's said in a song.

maybe someone who's a super-pro reading all this has an advice for you aswell.

maybe you're the type of guy thinking "oh, i like to leave things natural as they are and not work to much on the basic sound" (because of being used to it) but i believe in certain cases a more intensive care of EQing/compression is necessary to achieve clarity, impact and functionality!

there's an overall harshness when i turn the volume up - all gets un-nice..

try and still cut a few frequencies (by soloing guitars, bass and vocals maybe) to seperate as good as you can.

[It'sJoeAgain]

i don' want to leave u empty so i am leavin' u wit a sample so u can hear waht i mean by mo' *bass energy*, *bigger drums* n' mo' *analog spice*...don' get depressed dough ....just try to reach tis goal in tha future 4 all ur mixes/masters

take care lil' brother....

[alasdair]

Originally Posted by It'sJoeAgain

i don' want to leave u empty so i am leavin' u wit a sample so u can hear waht i mean by mo' *bass energy*, *bigger drums* n' mo' *analog spice*...don' get depressed dough ....just try to reach tis goal in tha future 4 all ur mixes/masters

take care lil' brother....

Thanks for your help, you made me realise i compressed the overheads on the drums way too much, and that the snare replacement sample I'm using needs some work / further replacement.

Anyway, thanks for the help.

[cooker]

Originally Posted by It'sJoeAgain

i don' want to leave u empty so i am leavin' u wit a sample so u can hear waht i mean by mo' *bass energy*, *bigger drums* n' mo' *analog spice*...don' get depressed dough ....just try to reach tis goal in tha future 4 all ur mixes/masters

take care lil' brother....