Weird mastering problem (Help please)

[xlii42]

Hi Guys,

**********Skip from here til stars below to get to the point**********
I've got a bit of a (not so weird problem). I've been making and mixing music for over 10 years now and have sometimes ventured into mastering (for people who can't afford a PROPER mastering engineer) because I own reasonably nice speakers and have a treated room.

I have never really mastered my own stuff, but with the current climate in the music industry I'm looking to doing it myself to save money.

*********************************************************


So my problem is this: I make hip-hop/electronic/dubstep kind of dance music and have an album & 12" scheduled for a release. So I master it in Wavelab while referencing against Madonnas Hard Candy, 50Cent, Kanye West, Benga and some other loud stuff I found and my tunes sound comparably loud. When I import it into iTunes to check on my iPod however, they sound WAAY quieter than most of the other music I have on there.

Here are some facts about my masters and effects used, please tell me where I'm going / went wrong:

*All tracks were mixed through a compressor (Waves SSL) with a tape sat added in the end. All files peak around -3dB with about -10dB RMS (rough guess). 24bit 44.1khz

*All tracks are in phase

*all tracks are imported into Wavelab for processing here's more or less the average chain I use:
1.Oxford EQ cut below 37-40Hz to remove subs, hi-shelf +1dB above 7khz for glitter. Maybe add 1dB 60-80Hz for solid lows.
2.Use Brainworx to mono everything below 350-400hz
3.Wavelab stereo spreader to about 65-75% (50 woud be the original mix sound 0 is mono) for wideness
4.Oxford Inflator between 50-70 inflate setting
5.Oxford limiter to about +5dB input -0.1dB output, about 90-100% enhance setting. Attack on average at 0.10ms (super short; but sometimes up to 1ms if snares sound flat with release increased accordingly) release 0.05 (super short).
6. Dither through Waves IDE to 16bit

Everything is then burned to Red Book CD using Wavelab audio montage and CD functions (after applying proper fades etc.). Which is then imported into iTunes on another PC for reference.


As I mentioned, when auditioned on my Adam A7s, Yamaha HS50s, Sony ZS-M3 (boombox), AKG-240s and standard earphones. All the tracks compare favourably to most of the mainstream stuff i used for reference, albeit a little narrower (most tracks are club oriented). However, when I shuffle the tracks in my iPod they sound WAAAY quieter than everything post year 2001.

This is kind of a weird problem that needs to be addressed urgently (Deadlines!!!), so any help, opinions or criticism is welcome. Except for mentioning that I should REALLY use a proper mastering studio and not do it myself. I know that perfectly well.

Any input is appreciated!

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by xlii42

I'm looking to doing it myself to save money.

snip

When I import it into iTunes to check on my iPod however, they sound WAAY quieter than most of the other music I have on there.

snip

please tell me where I'm going / went wrong:

Nothing weird about your question... it's asked every other day

In a nut shell, you're trying to do something that you don't know enough about. There's no other way of putting it. Loudness in a master requires compromises to be made / damage to be inflicted. There's no one 'trick' to getting loudness with 'minimal' damage. Thus, there's no one specific thing someone could advise you to do. It's good EQ & dynamics choices (i.e. good mastering), experimentation with different kinds of audio-raping, good basic knowledge about what they do, well trained ears and good monitoring / acoustics to hear different artifacts, well established sense of what's desirable (or rather less damaging) aesthetically, experience with what you can and can't get away with, etc.

You're required to either invest significant time (as well as potentially money) and learn a lot - or, if that's not your thing, spend the cash on someone who has done just that. If a long learning process is what you're set out to do and you're looking for starting points, fair enough, though best say so. If you're looking for a quick fix magic short cut that enables you to instantly achieve what others are spending a lifetime on, that's not going to happen.

Again, this is not to discourage you, but it seems you're expecting a 'magic trick' answer that will instantly enable you to get your mix / master to compete with million dollar productions (whether that is actually possible through mastering is another question, by the way).

And in case you're not: Here's some 'tricks' to get you started: Get rid of the inflator (50% - 70% is A LOT, btw.) and stereo expander. Turn auto gain and safe mode on the oxford off. Think of what elements of the mix are keeping you from getting a higher loudness and see if that guides you towards a specific method of 'making it loud'. If you don't know that there's a wide range of options, start asking / learning about them.
Use EQ not by what you think others do, but by what the track needs. Corrective EQing ('taking out what's too much') will help you with gaining loudness. If everything else fails, just spend the cash on a professional. There are great MEs working for very affordable rates, right here on Gearslutz.

[xlii42]

24-96

Thanks for the advice. I will fiddle with the settings and see if I can improve matters. You're right about me not having enough experience / knowledge to do this stuff, but I don't think I have nearly as little knowledge as you suspect. I do have a treated room with a decent monitoring setup and I've been mixing people's music for a living for years, so I do have trained ears too. Almost all people come back, so I must be doing something right. I admit that Adam A7s & HS50s are not nearly as suitable for mastering as something like Hummel & Klein, but I have produced and mixed this entire album (I think that's probably where my real problem is) and know every sound there is, every click and pop was taken care of and the frequency range is as balanced as can be. Hence the minimal EQ settings.
I suppose the real problem could be my reluctance to smash my nicely crafted mixes with ridiculous limiter settings (hence the Inflator... It was a desperate measure), but I still can't explain why my mixes sound as loud as all comercial stuff coming out of my DAW (RMS readings are comparable too), but quieter when imported into iTunes from a Red Book CD (the one that was to be replicated at the factory). THAT was my real question! Any thoughts on that?

Safeandsound

Thanks for the advice. That's what I've been doing and side by side in Wavelab my masters sound very decent alongside all the ref material. It is only when I import the album off a Finalised Red Book CD into iTunes and listen to it on my earphones that it sounds quieter than the rest of the stuff! Any ideas?

[Waltz Mastering]

What you want to do (get your levels up as "gracefully" as possible) can not be taught or learnt overnight.

Have you taken the songs that you have mastered for your clients in the past and a/b'ed them against the material that you are a/b ing your new masters to?

How do they stack up?

[SCDBM]

Let's take a more pragmatic approach:

1. when in Wavelab, do you use DR Meter?
- what is your DR value in your unprocessed mix?
- what is your DR value in your final master?
- what does the meter read on K14 scale?
- Do you have peaks anywhere preventing the rest of the mix getting loud?

2. how does your master sound, compared to reference recordings, imported as wave in WL?
3. when you play via iTunes, do you play the original master, or a file that has been tampered with afterwards (i.e. burned on CD, and then ripped from CD again with dodgy programs?)
4. Do you have something like autovolume/autogain on in iTunes?
5. how do you convert from 44.1/16 to MP3?

Here are so many variables in the process that can go wrong if you don't know what you are doing. step 1 and 2 are in your hands, the rest you didn't tell us anything about....

[Delta Heavy]

It's hard to compete with current dance music, especially stuff like dubstep, in terms of sheer loudness since most of it is utterly smashed.

As mentioned above, getting level as transparently as possible is a skill that comes from years of experience and not something that can be learned overnight.

I'm always surprised by people's often stubborn stance about getting their own music professionally mastered, it can be a lot cheaper than you think...plenty of the big places in London have good deals at the moment reflecting the current economic climate for example.

[It'sJoeAgain]

Originally Posted by xlii42

I suppose the real problem could be my reluctance to smash my nicely crafted mixes with ridiculous limiter settings (hence the Inflator... It was a desperate measure), but I still can't explain why my mixes sound as loud as all comercial stuff coming out of my DAW (RMS readings are comparable too), but quieter when imported into iTunes from a Red Book CD (the one that was to be replicated at the factory). THAT was my real question! Any thoughts on that?

That (not usin limiter right) and that you think ur mix' frequency bands are optimized and good to go (to mastering) is what I think is happening...On my site the ME listens to ur mix, spectrum analises to locates overshoots, band gaps, frequency anomalies (like excessive kick drm peaks) balances the mix frequency bands and sometime re-shapes (or not) the bass frequencies... then a/b's with similar styles of music to hear how they compare both in eq as well as loudness.....But Ya...he's been doin this sh*t for 30 yrs! If youre doin all that n' ur mixes still sound lower then maybe somethin is wrong with that Itunes converter. i would then take one of those records u say sound louder and rip it wit ITunes, if it also sounds low, then there is ur answer.

[SCDBM]

Why do all of these topics always end up in some kind of mastering for dummies course .....

I just realized all these answers always tell the same thing.

[It'sJoeAgain]

would u rather have someone tell u "just do what the mix tells u to do"?? at least i am sayin that is not as simple as not bein loud enuff as he might think the problrm is...

[SCDBM]

Again Joe, you are right

and so is 24-96, there is no standard recipe that can be applied to every track, neither is there a limited set of standard activities that will lead to, for example, 80% of the results of a pro master.

Every track is different
Every customer is different.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by It'sJoeAgain

would u rather have someone tell u "just do what the mix tells u to do"?? at least i am sayin that is not as simple as not bein loud enuff as he might think the problrm is...

I really like to read your thoughts but the use of "texting" words sometimes makes your replies hard to read. Is there a reason for using text that is so hard to read. You certainly are not being charged by the word length and this is not going on a cell phone (or maybe it is). Just wondering???? Thanks in advance...

FWIW, MTCW and HAGD.....

[xlii42]

First and foremost, thank you all guys for your replies. I was really half-expecting to be ignored cos my post was kind of long. hahaha. So I really appreciate you taking the time to get back to me.

I'm going through all your posts and following the steps. As I mentioned, this is my first venture into mastering my own stuff because this is the first time I've over-used my production budget. The label believes that the budget I was allocated was sufficient and blah blah blah... So now I have to either use my own money or do it myself. hence the dilemma. All my previous releases were mastered by pros in VERY good studios which I could never afford if I was to pay for it, so I do know the value of QUALITY mastering engineers. So we can cut out the preaching bit and get to the meat of the matter.

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

Have you taken the songs that you have mastered for your clients in the past and a/b'ed them against the material that you are a/b ing your new masters to?

How do they stack up?

Most of what I have done for people falls into 3 categories, 1. Live recordings (so there's a lot of reparation involved) 2. Mix CDs (a lot of automation and balancing) 3. Low Budget Hip-hop (in this case the artists simply don't have the money to go to a proper engineer even though I always STRONGLY advise it. But if I don't do it, they'll simply stick a some rubbish brickwall and release it like that, so I suppose I kind of have no choice there.). In the cases of 1 & 2, it's hard to find ref material of low enough quality to A/B stuff properly. In most cases the recordings are bad as well, so that doesn't help matters either. But it usually sounds as pretty good. In case of 3, it usually sounds pretty good, because in most cases I mix it as well and hip-hop is not exactly the pinnacle of crystal clear sound quality.

Originally Posted by Raphie

Let's take a more pragmatic approach:

1. when in Wavelab, do you use DR Meter?
- what is your DR value in your unprocessed mix?
- what is your DR value in your final master?
- what does the meter read on K14 scale?
- Do you have peaks anywhere preventing the rest of the mix getting loud?

2. how does your master sound, compared to reference recordings, imported as wave in WL?
3. when you play via iTunes, do you play the original master, or a file that has been tampered with afterwards (i.e. burned on CD, and then ripped from CD again with dodgy programs?)
4. Do you have something like autovolume/autogain on in iTunes?
5. how do you convert from 44.1/16 to MP3?

I'll get back to you on 1 as I don't have the data in front of me right now. For 2, honestly, my masters sounds pretty good when A/Bed with Madonna, Chemical Brothers, 50Cent, Benga and Bjork and reproduced through my A7s, HS50s or boombox. biggest difference being that madonna sounds way wider and lows are lighter compared to my stuff. on the other hand, 50Cent sounds almost mono. Chemical Brothers have rounder and fatter lows, while Bjork just seems stupidly loud. Benga is the opposite. Very quiet and gentle with hardly any punch.

I burn the CD onto a Mastering Quality CD-R at x1 speed in Red Book format. Then simply rip it to 192mp3 in iTunes (using the most typical settings to reproduce how people might be listening to it). I don't use the auto-gain thing. That's it. Weird, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Delta Heavy

I'm always surprised by people's often stubborn stance about getting their own music professionally mastered, it can be a lot cheaper than you think...plenty of the big places in London have good deals at the moment reflecting the current economic climate for example.

Barking up the wrong tree mate. All my previous releases were mastered in top studios by top engineers. Tohru Kohtetsu @ Yokohama JVC for 1, the oldschoolest of the oldschool engineers. Hand built his entire room @ JVC and thinks computers are devils or something, but MAAN is he good. Analogue 1000%. Lack of my label's enthusiasm for extra budget also reflects the current economic crisis...

Originally Posted by It'sJoeAgain

If youre doin all that n' ur mixes still sound lower then maybe somethin is wrong with that Itunes converter. i would then take one of those records u say sound louder and rip it wit ITunes, if it also sounds low, then there is ur answer.

Yep, I'm just trying to rip it in Wavelab and see if that makes a difference. Just got word from the label and they say it sounds fine. Infact, the once criticism I just got was that everything is too clear! hahaha. that's a first. I was told that more grit would be welcome.


Think I will go shoot something on XBOX, cos this is doing my head in. If I don't get these tracks sounding nice by tomorrow, I'll just pay for it myself. If you have any reasonable recommendations please don't hesitate!

[audiomatic]

have you used iTunes to rip your reference tracks as well, there is the possibility of dodgy file conversion or compression inflicting some damage on your audio, if you a/b them in your daw and they sound okay then there shouldnt be any drastic differences in iTunes, unless its codecs are smashing your track

[JeffG]

I'll keep it short and sweet. I've run into a similar situation with another application a few years ago. I suspect it's the I-tunes converter application. You might test converting using another software(s) with those same files and see if your final output level is lower, post encoding. If it only happens using the I-tunes app then I would suspect something in the I-tunes app is affecting your final output level. Have you updated that I-tunes software lately? Bottom line, take the same mix files and convert them to the same type .mp3 using I-tunes and maybe 1 or 2 other 3rd party apps and see what you come up with. Of course, check your settings within the apps and make sure you're not accidently renormalizing to a lower output level or something of that nature. To me if you get different results with different software converters then it's not the mix file (which doesn't change), it's the software converting the file or settings within the apps affecting the audio conversion.

I get from your post that you're talking about literally losing output volume post encoding versus not having the same perceptual loudness as other higher end cd's. If you're losing actual output volume then it's probably the encoder software.

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by xlii42

but I still can't explain why my mixes sound as loud as all comercial stuff coming out of my DAW (RMS readings are comparable too), but quieter when imported into iTunes from a Red Book CD (the one that was to be replicated at the factory). THAT was my real question! Any thoughts on that?

Oh... I see. Lol. I misread your original question as being about signal processing (since so much detail about the chain was listed). Well the actual question should be much easier tackled

A couple of questions:

1. Are you sure that your songs are as loud in your DAW? Have you compared side by side in Wavelab (like you are comparing in itunes), or are you going by RMS readings only? (which can be very misleading...)
If not, see post #2

2. Have you re-imported audio from the burned CD back into Wavelab and done a null test to make sure the burned ref is identical to what you're listening to in the DAW?
If not, check that your master section is in the signal path when burning. For testing, try bouncing the complete file to a new montage (with plugins applied), then burn that montage.

3. If the answer to Q1 and Q2 is (a decisive) yes, the culprit should be itunes. What encoder is itunes set to use? Are there any encoder settings you can access? Can you try a different encoder?

[soulviasound]

+1 @24-96 Mastering

It's very tricky to talk about your problem without hearing your song. Maybe you mix it wrong. It's posible even you are a experimented, you can have a subjective vision. If all your tracks sound loud, nothing will sound loud. And you must know that loud sensation it's not perfect proportional with RMS level.

Anyway, if it's a club music genere I saw a strange thing. Your Limiter attack it's too short. Another thing: try to think simple. You don't need 1000 limiting stage. From your setting description Inflator allready make limiting. Limiter enhance seems to be too much and that stereo spreader it's wired but I just can't judge with eyes. Put original mix and mastering version. I'm prety shure you don't have enough experience to handle these tools. Espacily EQ. Why did you add 1 dB to 7k ? You can obtain same sonic efect to dipp 350 hz.

Don't lose your ears say other. I know same old bla bla story. It's true, but first you need the right infos. You like it or no, you need all the necesar info and experience to use your ears. You can't play instruments without study, even if you have great ears. If you want to do mastering, master yourself first.

cheers

[masterizer]

Making "loud" masters starts with a great mix, its much easier to make a good mix great than make a mediocre mix good. ME's will start making some eq adjustments that allow for the master to be "loud" (damaged) but done so with care (yields least amount of damage). Your ears will be the judge of loudness, good monitoring as well as good hearing are very important in mastering.

[synthoid]

have you checked the playback settings on iTunes to be sure that their enhancer is not enabled? That thing is very material-dependent and it does all kinds of crazy stuff. It will clip like crazy on one song and create all kinds of phase cancellation problems on the next one (it has stereo enhancers built it).

it's a long shot but I thought I'd mention it...

-synthoid

[finetuner]

Originally Posted by synthoid

have you checked the playback settings on iTunes to be sure that their enhancer is not enabled? That thing is very material-dependent and it does all kinds of crazy stuff. It will clip like crazy on one song and create all kinds of phase cancellation problems on the next one (it has stereo enhancers built it).

it's a long shot but I thought I'd mention it...

-synthoid

specifically the knob below 'Enhancer', named 'Soundcheck' - The auto level thing in i-Tunes.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by It'sJoeAgain

hey man...waht u sayin is that i don' know how to write (insult) disguised as a qustion...u wanna read my thoughts?? then gimme some money u friggin' foo'...

I really use to enjoy reading your posts. They offer a very different view than most people. If you take that as an insult so be it. I think that text speak does not belong on a professional forum. This is not the "hood" and you are not writing to your cell phone buddy. Since communications is such a large part of what a mastering engineer has to do we should all be clear in our communications with others. I have for the most part stopped reading your posts since they are confusing to read and I have to continually consult the internet to understand what you are saying or referring to. It is only a suggestion but clear concise writing is the benchmark of an educated person. You can take that suggestion anyway you want to.

Back on topic and IMHO...

Good recording and mixing + good mastering = A good sounding track.

Poorly done recording and mixing + good mastering = Marginal results.

Poorly done recording and mixing + self mastering = A mess.

The quest for louder and louder tracks has lead to the current state of affairs where every one wants to get their tracks louder and I am seeing more and more people bringing in loud distorted, clipped tracks and wanting me to make them even louder. In one case recently there were already 117 overs in a three minute piece before I even got it to master. The person who brought it in was complaining that it sounded distorted and wanted to see if I could make it louder and at the same time get rid of the distortion. I told him the facts of life which was that he had already clipped the peaks and what he brought me was already a "brick" recording that was pre distorted and pre compressed and limited. I told him that he was severely limiting my options to do what he wanted done.

I suggested either leaving it as it was or going back and remixing it with out all the two buss compressors and limiters strapped across the mix buss and bringing it in at about -4 dBFS. He has not called back so I don't know if he is working on it or has found someone else to work on his tracks.

Good topic!

[gwell1]

I do the same thing: import audio and reference my recordings, as I'm sure most of us do. But one thing that i've noticed, is that when you import an MP3 audio file into pro tools, it is usually really low in volume. Try ripping a cd that you'd like to reference as a WAV file, then import it and compare.

[xlii42]

Thanks all you guys for so many replies. A lot of your advices and ideas are really helpful! And I'm going through things carefully. Earlier today I've managed to improve matters by removing the inflator. Only cutting and not boosting with EQ and getting rid of the stereo spreader. I've also got the transients to sound more solid by tinkering with the limiter settings (Thanks 24-96).I am now wondering if putting a compressor before the limiter would be a good idea? I generally mix through a compressor anyway, so I'm a bit dubious about using yet another compressor here. Any opinions?

Originally Posted by TheTomMachine

have you used iTunes to rip your reference tracks as well, there is the possibility of dodgy file conversion or compression inflicting some damage on your audio, if you a/b them in your daw and they sound okay then there shouldnt be any drastic differences in iTunes, unless its codecs are smashing your track

Thanks for the advice. I've tinkered with the iTunes settings and realised that they weren't default. I'm now re-importing the CD at default iTunes settings to give it another try.

Originally Posted by JeffG

I get from your post that you're talking about literally losing output volume post encoding versus not having the same perceptual loudness as other higher end cd's. If you're losing actual output volume then it's probably the encoder software.

Thanks mate. Just giving it a try. I first changed the settings in iTunes, but if that doesn't work I'll try converting it properly in Wavelab. If that fails then it's pretty much definitely the master.

Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering

1. Are you sure that your songs are as loud in your DAW? Have you compared side by side in Wavelab (like you are comparing in itunes), or are you going by RMS readings only? (which can be very misleading...)
If not, see post #2

2. Have you re-imported audio from the burned CD back into Wavelab and done a null test to make sure the burned ref is identical to what you're listening to in the DAW?
If not, check that your master section is in the signal path when burning. For testing, try bouncing the complete file to a new montage (with plugins applied), then burn that montage.

3. If the answer to Q1 and Q2 is (a decisive) yes, the culprit should be itunes. What encoder is itunes set to use? Are there any encoder settings you can access? Can you try a different encoder?

Thanks for getting back to me again.
For Q1 I just did a meticulous double check against Madonna, Common, Lucky-i-am etc. And I can confirm that my tracks sound JUST as loud as the ref material on 2 sets of speakers, headphones and boombox. RMS readings (on K-20) on average fluctuate between +14 and +17 for all the ref material and my mastered tracks. and wavelab VU readings on generally average out at about -9 for all material (give or take 1dB). So they are just as loud and Wavelab seems to think so too.

for Q2, actually no mate. I haven't done a null test and I really should have. So I'm gonna get on it now. Thanks for the pointers.

When creating a montage in Wavelab I actually bounce all masters to a solid file with all the processing applied before placing it in in the montage. if there's a problem I recall the setting on the original mix and bounce it again. It's a fiddle, but seems more solid like this. The master section is enabled when burning the CD and it's all defaulted back to zero.

I'm also gonna try burning to a different CD-R and try to re-import it into iTunes from that. For me the way iTunes handles audio is crucial, because that's what most people use to rip their CDs.

Originally Posted by soulviasound

Anyway, if it's a club music genere I saw a strange thing. Your Limiter attack it's too short. Another thing: try to think simple. You don't need 1000 limiting stage. From your setting description Inflator allready make limiting. Limiter enhance seems to be too much and that stereo spreader it's wired but I just can't judge with eyes. Put original mix and mastering version. I'm prety shure you don't have enough experience to handle these tools. Espacily EQ. Why did you add 1 dB to 7k ? You can obtain same sonic efect to dipp 350 hz.

My mixes are fine and so are my ears. I live off music, so don't think my clients would've come back to me if I made their tracks sound shit.

Back on point. Thanks for the advice. I did change my limiter settings and got rid of the inflator and it DOES sound a bit cleaner. Also, you're right about the EQ decision. I don't know why I boosted to be honest. What can I say, mixing is my strength... but even then I don't really boost much.

Originally Posted by masterizer

Making "loud" masters starts with a great mix, its much easier to make a good mix great than make a mediocre mix good. ME's will start making some eq adjustments that allow for the master to be "loud" (damaged) but done so with care (yields least amount of damage). Your ears will be the judge of loudness, good monitoring as well as good hearing are very important in mastering.

Thanks for your generic comment. Do you paste it in every thread, or just this one?

Originally Posted by synthoid

have you checked the playback settings on iTunes to be sure that their enhancer is not enabled? That thing is very material-dependent and it does all kinds of crazy stuff. It will clip like crazy on one song and create all kinds of phase cancellation problems on the next one (it has stereo enhancers built it).

yep, all that stuff is off. I hate it too. infact... I just hate iTunes.... & hate mp3s.

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

Good recording and mixing + good mastering = A good sounding track.

Poorly done recording and mixing + good mastering = Marginal results.

Poorly done recording and mixing + self mastering = A mess.

The quest for louder and louder tracks has lead to the current state of affairs where every one wants to get their tracks louder and I am seeing more and more people bringing in loud distorted, clipped tracks and wanting me to make them even louder. In one case recently there were already 117 overs in a three minute piece before I even got it to master. The person who brought it in was complaining that it sounded distorted and wanted to see if I could make it louder and at the same time get rid of the distortion. I told him the facts of life which was that he had already clipped the peaks and what he brought me was already a "brick" recording that was pre distorted and pre compressed and limited. I told him that he was severely limiting my options to do what he wanted done.

I suggested either leaving it as it was or going back and remixing it with out all the two buss compressors and limiters strapped across the mix buss and bringing it in at about -4 dBFS. He has not called back so I don't know if he is working on it or has found someone else to work on his tracks.

Good topic!

how about a good mix + self mastering with a lot of help from Gearslutz?

and yes mate, I totally agree about this whole loudness wars thing. I even have a logo on my products "Stop the loudness WAR! Use the volume knob!", now thinking of making a "Save the dynamics!" sticker in a "Save the children!" font.

That's why I usually have my stuff mastered a few dB below my peers. This time however, I'm actually doing it myself, so wanna at least make an illusion of Better sound.





P.S. I'm yielding better results with PSP Xenon on Recon setting. Shame it's a DEMO though. Still, it runs out in 13 days so hopefully will at least master this project. Seriously considering getting it though. it's a very clean limiter!

[It'sJoeAgain]

Originally Posted by xlii42

I am now wondering if putting a compressor before the limiter would be a good idea? I generally mix through a compressor anyway, so I'm a bit dubious about using yet another compressor here. Any opinions?

afaik ther is no point to havin a wide band compressor (at the master buss) along with a limiter unless:
A/ u want that limiter to work not too hard 4 u
B/ u like tha color/vibe/tone tha compressor gives
C/ u want another gain stagin' step (mo' control)
D/ u want to show off (with clients)

[xlii42]

Aaaargh! It was bloody iTunes! it was set to joint stereo setting I think and seems to make the track appear lower in volume. My intention is always to make my tracks a bit quieter than other people to not contribute to this whole loudness war thing. But iTunes has really gone over the top with it for me.

Just to not make you guys feel like you effort was wasted here, I've learned a lot of useful stuff and gonna remaster the tunes anyway.

Thanks for all your comments and help and f**k iTunes! pardon my language.

[It'sJoeAgain]

Originally Posted by xlii42

Aaaargh! It was bloody iTunes! it was set to joint stereo setting I think and seems to make the track appear lower in volume. My intention is always to make my tracks a bit quieter than other people to not contribute to this whole loudness war thing. But iTunes has really gone over the top with it for me.

Just to not make you guys feel like you effort was wasted here, I've learned a lot of useful stuff and gonna remaster the tunes anyway.

Thanks for all your comments and help and f**k iTunes! pardon my language.

told u