Advanced Limiting

[psykostx]

Hey I have a question about how all the Mastering Engineers (and Mixing too if you find it appropriate) around here go about making the "little" decisions when using your favorite limiter...

...for example, do you like to cut the bass a bit before limiting to avoid overpumping? High shelf to induce pumping? Multiband the lows and leave the top alone to make the bass seem up against the glass? ( I call that one an ant farm ) Verb a few frequencies to nestle the vocalsYou get the idea!

Post 'em up...

Also: Don't forget to post the situation. Recent accounts probably make the best posts here, what have you done right before the limiter, and how do you hit it, and why do you hit it that way?

[jinksdingo]

I'm not an ME but I do put a compressor and then a limiter on the bus when I'm nearing the end of a mix to check what in the mix is lifted under a comp and what is the first to go into distortion under a limiter. Then I remove these.
I usually leave an EQ over the mix bus.

I still got a pair of Edirol micro monitors which have volume and tone controls which I find useful as the mix is near done.
I crank the bass and volume on these little monitors and check the low end of the mix. Then I crank just the treble.
Once all is good I'll bounce down.

If I'm going to make a MP3 of my own stuff not the same as Mastering as it is usually one tune at a time.
I'll open up the mix file and put a limiter on it usually Voxengo's Elephant, but just to catch the odd peak, being usually the drums which I have learn't not to overprocess in the mix.

I rely on a good EQ or two, occasionally a compressor and often a stereo ambience impulse.

What I am looking for when finalizing a rock mix like this is getting it loud with a proper balance in the audio spectrum and catching peaks with a limiter without squeezing the life out of it. Also the MP3 conversion doesn't like too much brickwalling either. There is a point where brickwalling hurts your ears and it isn't much at all.

I have had a few Classical Guitar clients lately, one of whom thinks I get a very Professional sounding mix and which he trusts me to master.

The approach of classical to Mastering is having a Limiter in place of the mix to read the peaks but totally handling the tonal balance with EQ and a ever so touch of mild compression to even some of the notes only.
Different beast and one hard to trust anyone with.

[Bob Olhsson]

This is really more a mixing question. In mastering it's standard to compensate for what the limiter is taking away with eq.

[psykostx]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

This is really more a mixing question. In mastering it's standard to compensate for what the limiter is taking away with eq.

I knew this was gonna happen. This thread is not about EQ's and Limiters, but rather how you use your limiter in the chain to acheive desired characteristics in the finished product, not the mix. The EQ was just an example, and if all you are doing is compensating, that counts as a technique! Some people distort the bejezus out of their work and some dont... Theres lots of variables here! Thanks for your post...you could throw some more info out there if you want...

How do you like your limiter to interact with the kick and snare (yes "I CRUSH them" is a viable answer, but I would prefer you be more specific!)?

...and I forgot to ask, whats your favorite limiter? ( This is gearslutz after all )

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by psykostx

This thread is <snip> about how you use your limiter in the chain to achieve desired characteristics in the finished product

Digital limiter's in mastering, to me are like the "clear coat" sealer. When used, I usually try to get them as clear and invisible as possible - nothing exciting...

[psykostx]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

Digital limiter's in mastering, to me are like the "clear coat" sealer. When used, I usually try to get them as clear and invisible as possible - nothing exciting...

Good post without even meaning it! This is gearslutz, something like that is exciting! I always thought of limiting like contrast in photography ...you can either go bold, bright and simple, or keep it smooth, gradiated, and detailed with a slightly darker tone or even in between! Whats your fav "sealer" btw?

[Waltz Mastering]

I have a few, but go back to Massey a lot.

[masterizer]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

Digital limiter's in mastering, to me are like the "clear coat" sealer. When used, I usually try to get them as clear and invisible as possible - nothing exciting...

I think most ME's will agree with this, anything over a few db will really get rid of the snare attack and depending on which limiter will add some kind of coloration. I've seen mixers attempt to "master" a decent mix and turn it into total crap by slapping on a pumpy compressor and over limiting.

[macc]

Originally Posted by masterizer

I've seen mixers attempt to "master" a decent mix and turn it into total crap by slapping on a pumpy compressor and over limiting.

I've seen mastering engineers do that.

[psykostx]

Originally Posted by masterizer

I think most ME's will agree with this, anything over a few db will really get rid of the snare attack and depending on which limiter will add some kind of coloration. I've seen mixers attempt to "master" a decent mix and turn it into total crap by slapping on a pumpy compressor and over limiting.

I love how unconscious everyone is about how differently they all use limiters...and how we all use different cues to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Sometimes I notice that I stop at one point because of (fill in any pulse keeping instrument) attack like you said, but I end up going back in to pull something else up a little without fussing with my perfect eq setting, and it ends up adding that last little snap to the main pulse...you know, that thing that just takes it away from you right when you think you can grab it, but is not really hyperventilating where it "speeds everything up" or "slows it down". I like to let my multibands do most of the breathing, and just put the snap on with the limiter...if that makes sense? lol

PS: I guess I do exactly what you hate...but hey thats what everything I listen to sounds like, its not my fault, I'm sorry!

[j-madd]

I will say I tend to use faster limiter speeds on the voxengo elephant (V2) when working with rock songs, as it feels like it adds a touch more smack in the highs (snare). This is very slight of course, as we are not talking about an eq here, but I do notice that slower speeds are duller in comparison.

Justin

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

Digital limiter's in mastering, to me are like the "clear coat" sealer. When used, I usually try to get them as clear and invisible as possible - nothing exciting...

Exactly. The goal in mastering is to not hear that a limiter is being used to make the master loud.

The idea in mixing is to use the distortion of a limiter as an intentional effect. Typically this is for low frequency glue. Same tool, very different application.

There are folks in the high end forum who could give you lots of information about using limiters as an effect in combination with other processing.

[masterizer]

Originally Posted by macc

I've seen mastering engineers do that.

Ha ha, you mean "mastering" engineers...

[masterizer]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Exactly. The goal in mastering is to not hear that a limiter is being used to make the master loud.

The idea in mixing is to use the distortion of a limiter as an intentional effect. Typically this is for low frequency glue. Same tool, very different application.

There are folks in the high end forum who could give you lots of information about using limiters as an effect in combination with other processing.

I agree Bob,

I like Chris Lord-Alge's technique of using the L1 on vocals, its got a great eq effect that works well with pop/rock type stuff.