open window mixing

[michj]

How good is to mix or masterize in a room with big open windows on the back

[Dave Rose]

Originally Posted by michj

How good is to mix or masterize in a room with big open windows on the back

Masterize is my new word for the summer now! 'I am the Masterizer' 'Masterize this, baby' etc etc : )

[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by SafeandSound

I suspect it will reduce innacuracies in the bass to a degree.

I suspect you will lose some details in the mix unless you are in the countryside.

I suspect you may attract thieves who will understand what you are doing.

cheers

it'll also familiarize your neighbours with your up and coming catalogue

[Storyville]

Originally Posted by michj

How good is to mix or masterize in a room with big open windows on the back

...... Good luck.....

[michj]

Its a big old house in a corner.Incredibly quite u dont have to worry about neighbours.I just began mixing like this and seem to be working better when getting together the low end.

[lerone]

Originally Posted by SafeandSound

I suspect it will reduce innacuracies in the bass to a degree.

I suspect you will lose some details in the mix unless you are in the countryside.

I suspect you may attract thieves who will understand what you are doing.

cheers

Yeah, I wouldn't do it in London!

[michj]

yes i have the room treated by the open window thing makes the bass easier to mix

[psykostx]

If it works, and its a trick, and you are a magician? Lol.


Thanks for the tip buddy..........

Aha just kiddin man. Yes, you are experimenting with a helmholtz absorber! It does something to your bass I can guarantee that.

Whether its good or bad? Depends on the size/shape of the window(s) and room. And if it sounds good and translates well, first and foremost.

Definitely look out for theives though dude...you wouldn't leave a stack of gold bars on your back porch just because noone ever goes in your back yard, would you?

[TranscendingM]

Although this could help with bass management, you'd probally have a skewed perception of reverberation and tapered high frequencies. I'd see the open windows as a sort of an infinite absorption factor.

[Coyoteous]

I've mixed outdoor shows that were virtually free-field... board mixes were okay, but I've often wondered how free-field studio mixes and "masterizations" would sound.

[psykostx]

Originally Posted by TranscendingM

I'd see the open windows as a sort of an infinite absorption factor.

Exactly. But only at a specific range of frequencies based on the size of the opening. Obv if its a whole rear wall open or close to it, its gonna be all of the frequencies above the room's fundamental. Wiki Helmholtz absorber. I'm sure if you've ever done studio acoustics or speaker building, or taken a physics class, you've heard of Helmholtz, no?

[TranscendingM]

Originally Posted by psykostx

Exactly. But only at a specific range of frequencies based on the size of the opening. Obv if its a whole rear wall open or close to it, its gonna be all of the frequencies above the room's fundamental. Wiki Helmholtz absorber. I'm sure if you've ever done studio acoustics or speaker building, or taken a physics class, you've heard of Helmholtz, no?

It's more a matter of positioning for certain acoustic functions. Typically I wouldn't want absorption or an open window behind me. I'd want to diffuse the energy propagating from my monitors. Helmoltz resonators by the way work by resonance: the air mass and the "springiness" of the air in the cavity. And even though variable air space within the cavity is part of producing these at specific frequencies, they are still by their nature cavities, not "open windows".

[macc]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

"masterizations"

[psykostx]

Originally Posted by TranscendingM

It's more a matter of positioning for certain acoustic functions. Typically I wouldn't want absorption or an open window behind me. I'd want to diffuse the energy propagating from my monitors. Helmoltz resonators by the way work by resonance: the air mass and the "springiness" of the air in the cavity. And even though variable air space within the cavity is part of producing these at specific frequencies, they are still by their nature cavities, not "open windows".

Yes, the room is a cavity which resonates, and the window is the opening of the cavity. The ROOM is the helmholtz absorber, not the WINDOW.

The window just makes the room into a ported speaker box, which is a helmholtz style device.

Prob vacuuous for a very narrow band of frequencies, and all of your treble.... which could be good in a tiny room, if the larger of the parallel walls are front and back and the windows are towards the rear corners with a diffuser in the center. This will reduce bass peaks but keep the rear reflection. Don't quote me on this, but it is worth a shot....with a little tuning you might be on to somethin...

eg

--------------------------
| *******[]**[]*******|
| *******************|
| *******************|
_======MMMMMM===== _

key:

[] speaker

== open window

MMM diffusor

* airspace (sorry, whitespace characters won't work right on this forum)

[psykostx]

actually with some better angles on the front walls, and a meter to tune the size and shape of the windows... I'd say that's a pretty good design for a mastering room...

...yes I have constructed acoustic rooms before...professionally... never made much money though because the materials are so expensive! Its hard to compete with contractors who tell people "theres no difference between mineral wool and fiberglass except price." "You don't need to isolate your sheetrock, just double it up to save money." I say to you, STICK WITH BUILDING MCMANSIONS YOU UNEDUCATED APES! And so I left the construction industry with only a very small stash of money to blow on monitors...

[psykostx]

Its all for nought if you don't dampen your sheetrock though... otherwise the "cardboard box" or the opposite "tin can" effect comes to mind when I think of what your masters must sound like. If you have plaster on concrete or something like that put up lots of sturdy wood furniture for diffusion (no rattles no pingyness/flutter). Also, try nailing (don't try and put a screw into fabric!) a nice thick persian rug (trippy!) to your ceiling or get some foam off of ebay... it will really clear up your mids and stereo image to get the diffusion absorbtion balance right! In fact, that's the whole point.

PS: Careful when nailing things to the ceiling, make sure you hit a stud...you don't want it to fall and knock anything over, or worse cover your rack while your gone, turning it into a toaster-oven of doom for your gear. Best bet is to use nails + adhesive.

[TranscendingM]

Originally Posted by psykostx

Yes, the room is a cavity which resonates, and the window is the opening of the cavity. The ROOM is the helmholtz absorber, not the WINDOW.

The window just makes the room into a ported speaker box, which is a helmholtz style device.

Prob vacuuous for a very narrow band of frequencies, and all of your treble.... which could be good in a tiny room, if the larger of the parallel walls are front and back and the windows are towards the rear corners with a diffuser in the center. This will reduce bass peaks but keep the rear reflection. Don't quote me on this, but it is worth a shot....with a little tuning you might be on to somethin...

eg

--------------------------
| *******[]**[]*******|
| *******************|
| *******************|
_======MMMMMM===== _

key:

[] speaker

== open window

MMM diffusor

* airspace (sorry, whitespace characters won't work right on this forum)

Hmm, you can see the room as a big resonating box. In fact it is. Only thing is, one has Helmoltz resonators in a room to tame/tune the room itself. In other words, I don't sit inside a Helmholtz resonator to mix or master. It's auxiliary to a room to convert resonance into another form of energy, like heat for example.

[psykostx]

Originally Posted by TranscendingM

Hmm, you can see the room as a big resonating box. In fact it is. Only thing is, one has Helmoltz resonators in a room to tame/tune the room itself. In other words, I don't sit inside a Helmholtz resonator to mix or master. It's auxiliary to a room to convert resonance into another form of energy, like heat for example.

Whats wrong with tuning the resonating box that you are in? lol.

Actually, helmholtz operates more on the comb filter principle. But when you add an absorbtion medium (ie a hole and/or fluff) it increases the frequency range under the curve of the comb effect. And you are right sound absorbtion does transduce vibration energy into heat energy. With the current price of oil we could use some more fluff stuffed helmholtz resonators with holes in them, then have Hatebreed or some similar screamo crap play in front of it...thus heating half the globe. Noise into heat. I like it.

[psykostx]

Originally Posted by TranscendingM

Hmm, you can see the room as a big resonating box.

Very condescending Bob. tutt

[TranscendingM]

Originally Posted by psykostx

Very condescending Bob. tutt

Huh? I don't understand..

[TranscendingM]

Originally Posted by psykostx

Whats wrong with tuning the resonating box that you are in? lol.

Actually, helmholtz operates more on the comb filter principle. But when you add an absorbtion medium (ie a hole and/or fluff) it increases the frequency range under the curve of the comb effect. And you are right sound absorbtion does transduce vibration energy into heat energy. With the current price of oil we could use some more fluff stuffed helmholtz resonators with holes in them, then have Hatebreed or some similar screamo crap play in front of it...thus heating half the globe. Noise into heat. I like it.

What I'm getting at is, when you tune the room with the resonators, you aren't actually physically situated within that cavity.

[psykostx]

Originally Posted by TranscendingM

What I'm getting at is, when you tune the room with the resonators, you aren't actually physically situated within that cavity.

Same effect, just greater when inside them rather than outside, no? Or is it opposite effect? I'm pretty sure the response is the same right inside the hole and just outside it theoretically speaking...

But I know what you are saying, the typical use for helmholtz is bass traps. I'm suggesting he experiment with the airspace inside his room and the window opening size to tune the bass response of his room as a whole.

Also from another perspective, the outside is a cavity with infinite absorbtion. When placed in the corners and sized for the appropriate absorbtion, the windows are ports to this cavity, and could theoretically smooth out the bass response.