converter differences...

[First Aid]

Easy people!

in the process of setting up a new mastering facility in sunny Devon and hoping i could pick you lots brains on a few things if you get a minute...

basic set up already:

2 macs running sound blade, 1 playback, 1 capture.

lathe: neumann vms 70

console:masselec MTC2 (elipitical filter!)

Comps: Neve33609j, Manley vari mu

EQ: Manley massivo

Digital: Weiss eq1, finalizer, Slam, L2


T.B.C. (hopefully this is where your worldly wisdom comes in if you have any experience good or bad with these or any alternatives!)

monitors: ATC SCM110A heard great things!

converters: this is the biggest issue given the cost of 3 could be anywhere between 6 and 15K depending...
Prism (ad8xrs, ad/da2's or orpheus), HEDD, lavry, apogee, or a combo of all 3?

EQ: we've def got the colour with the massive passive so looking at the MEA2 for a clinical tool given the scarceness of sontecs? GML?

Comp: Again the maselec sounds like a good bet in contrast to what we've got, plus i've used it (yum) and Leif phoned me up and was very helpfull!

Metering: what are people using to meter out of the MTC2?


will be testing all the suggestions we can over the next few months so will let you know how it pans out.

ps. what do you use to play back reference material for an instant a/b/c comparison with processed/unprocessed master, a 3rd machine?

thanks a lot for any time and help you can offer,

Aid

[lerone]

Id recommend auditioning them all so you can actually make a decision for yourself.

[Ben F]

Sontec and Massivo go very well together. The Buzz audio EQ would match very nicely as well. Both to me sound better than the maselec version 6 EQ.

[First Aid]

Originally Posted by lerone

Id recommend auditioning them all so you can actually make a decision for yourself.

i'm pretty sure i said that we will be. I don't think i know anyone dumb enough to fork out 2k plus on a black box they've never heard! lol

It would be equally dumb in this day and age of friendly, helpful internet forums to not listen to all available advice, sort the wheat from the chaff and use that information to help make a decision, no?

[First Aid]

Originally Posted by Ben F

Sontec and Massivo go very well together. The Buzz audio EQ would match very nicely as well. Both to me sound better than the maselec version 6 EQ.

Thanks ben! been having a look at the buzz, sounds interesting and will definitely try and get one to try out. is it clean or flavoured?

[William Bowden]

I notice no mention of the rack, if you don't have the acceleration limiters from the Sal74B then the maselec MPL-2 is not to be sniffed at IMHO.

I presume 'Slam" is the manley Slam?

With VU's you could probably build your own box I reckon, JLM audio have a kit for driving them, and Ebay has plenty of VU meters like lovely old westerns or even old Ampex. You'd be hard pressed to find Ernest Turners though (EMI TG meters) they are awesome!

A Z sys digital router will allow you to take splits for monitoring/main chain and these are cheap these days. The prism ADA8 series aren't bad, but you can only have one sample rate for all the AD section, then a different one for the DA id you like, but it's not like having multiple stereo pairs. I use a Prism for playback in the chain, and usually my Lavry for an AD (sometimes Prism) but as everyone always says - best to demo them.

I use a pair of benchmark DAC-1's for before and after (and very occasionally as DA in the actual chain). I know many people will frown upon this, but I think converters are like speakers - you learn them. The benchmarks are average, bit hifi, rather wide at the edges, but they have a great headphone amplifier and I think of them as being a 'better than average Joe" in the converter world.

Not sure about the DA in the Hedd, I like the Prism a lot more. Still the processing in the Hedd can sometimes be very useful in subtle amounts...

You may want to check out the thread about passive eq by Matt Grey, he has some audio files there I believe (sorry Matt haven't checked out any of them!)

Hope this helps, nice setup btw, I miss my VMS-80 sniff

The King

[First Aid]

thanks Will!

ahh you've confused me now, what we we're thinking if we REALLY go for it is 1 AD8XR as the first d2a with 3 24/96 pairs (1 for processing, 1 for dry and 1 for reference playback switchable to 16/44 on a scene memory when needed).

1 AD8XR from the MTC2 into the digital chain with the Manley Slam (digital) & then the L2 on the end before...

back into the MTC2 and off to either the lathe or the last 8XR (usually at 16/44 but again switchable) into the capture machine

i know there will be unused channels on 2 of the 8XR's but hell, no harm in whipping them out for a bit of quick recording! or are there more sensible configurations?

[William Bowden]

Well it sounds like you should have a separate ref DA then, cause if you're using one AD8XR as you say for 3 pairs of 24/96 DA then you won't be able to switch the last pair to 16/44 without the other three pairs changing over to 16/44 as well. Unless they've developed a 'by pair' sampling rate selector in the XR (I only have an ADA8 and it's all or nothing).

If however your 'second' ADA8 is only being used for AD duties, then it's DA section will be free... or am I missing something here? It's a bit confusing when you say into the 'last' AD8XR cause isn't that the AD of the first unit?

The Prisms are great for recording, but I like to leave mine fully plumbed in!!

crazy stuff - it might be better if you draw a flowchart!

The King

[lerone]

Originally Posted by First Aid

i'm pretty sure i said that we will be. I don't think i know anyone dumb enough to fork out 2k plus on a black box they've never heard! lol

It would be equally dumb in this day and age of friendly, helpful internet forums to not listen to all available advice, sort the wheat from the chaff and use that information to help make a decision, no?

Yeah I did think that seemed a little strange Sorry I didn't read about you auditioning them. In that case, a listen to both the prism & lavry gold would be definitely be worth it

[alcopop]

I would have a look at the Ibis if you have a Massivo . I find the mids on the massive get used a lot here and the lows and highs on the Ibis so I guess they compliment each other quite well .

[First Aid]

Originally Posted by William Bowden

Well it sounds like you should have a separate ref DA then, cause if you're using one AD8XR as you say for 3 pairs of 24/96 DA then you won't be able to switch the last pair to 16/44 without the other three pairs changing over to 16/44 as well. Unless they've developed a 'by pair' sampling rate selector in the XR (I only have an ADA8 and it's all or nothing).

If however your 'second' ADA8 is only being used for AD duties, then it's DA section will be free... or am I missing something here? It's a bit confusing when you say into the 'last' AD8XR cause isn't that the AD of the first unit?

The Prisms are great for recording, but I like to leave mine fully plumbed in!!

crazy stuff - it might be better if you draw a flowchart!

The King

ahh! yes you are right there is a free 16/44 DA free for reference playback which is better than the harmless but not very workflow friendly upscaling plan i had in mind !

thanks for all the input guys!

we're now looking at 3 Rosetta's i think...

any feedback on these? used them in the past and been very happy.

Apogee used to be the bomb but times may have changed....

[psykostx]

I heard the Apogee stuff has been surpassed by Lynx. I mean 140db dynamic range is a lot, whether the test was wieghted or not, no?

Also the Benchmark's preamp is a torroidal transformer. These pretty much all sound the same (very clear, and very flat) and are nearly perfect no matter how they are implemented. I have a Furman HA6AB headphone amp for its remote box...and I have to say, I jam along to some great sound through my dt770s! The DAC1 converters remind me a lot of DAC in my old 20-bit Denon cd player...which is a good thing...20-bit was very expensive back then, lets me know I got my money's worth. Its still the best sounding consumer cd player I've heard to this day.

What that had to do with your original post, I have no idea...

[First Aid]

yeah we've got a couple of Aurora's in the recording studio and a rosetta, i think the rosetta is more transparent and the lynx is slightly more coloured but in a nice way.

Anyone done an A/B bewtween an Aurora, Rosetta & an Orpheus?

[psykostx]

Originally Posted by First Aid

yeah we've got a couple of Aurora's in the recording studio and a rosetta, i think the rosetta is more transparent and the lynx is slightly more coloured but in a nice way.

Anyone done an A/B bewtween an Aurora, Rosetta & an Orpheus?

Really the lynx is more colored? Do you run off your converter clock or you have a master? If you have a Big Ben I'd say that explains it

[TranscendingM]

I don't find the Aurora colored actually. I use the internal clock...

[First Aid]

well, after a day long shootout on rainy dartmoor, between the ADA8XR, Orpheus & the Lynx we went for.... 2 8XR's.

a little more open in the highs with a touch less mid colouration and a noticeably richer, smoother low end, as well as imaging to die for and frightening depth of field. This converter honestly sounds amazing.

The lynx and orpheus both sound fantasic too, and surprisingly similar in character but in blind tests 2/2 of us picked the 8XR.

I think both the lynx and the orpheus would be fantastic for tracking and mixing many styles of music but for mastering purposes the 8XR was the obvious choice.

Also fell in love with the MEA2 & MLA2 eq and comp, both absolutely stunning.

thanks for the help and i'll let you know how the digital Slam thats coming in the next few weeks fairs. (think i've already made my mind up already...!)

ps. big thanks to Chris from Prism for the demo and hospitality!

[lerone]

On the conversion side, I'd also audition the lynx aurora 8 / 16. Im using the lynx alongside lavry black and am very happy with the conversion quality. If your going for super loud, the lynx doesn't sound as graceful when being clipped, but it offers great sounding conversion for comparatively little money. Even if you get lavry or prism, the lynx is WELL worth auditioning.



edit: didnt read that you did already. What a dick. No lavry audition?! Oooh. Shame

[First Aid]

Originally Posted by psykostx

Really the lynx is more colored? Do you run off your converter clock or you have a master? If you have a Big Ben I'd say that explains it

No it's run off the internal clock. You're right it sounds terrible clocked to the BB!

if its got a decent clock let it use it.

[First Aid]

Originally Posted by William Bowden

Well it sounds like you should have a separate ref DA then, cause if you're using one AD8XR as you say for 3 pairs of 24/96 DA then you won't be able to switch the last pair to 16/44 without the other three pairs changing over to 16/44 as well. Unless they've developed a 'by pair' sampling rate selector in the XR (I only have an ADA8 and it's all or nothing).

If however your 'second' ADA8 is only being used for AD duties, then it's DA section will be free... or am I missing something here? It's a bit confusing when you say into the 'last' AD8XR cause isn't that the AD of the first unit?

The Prisms are great for recording, but I like to leave mine fully plumbed in!!

crazy stuff - it might be better if you draw a flowchart!

The King

after un-confusing myself yesterday i can confirm that this is the big difference in the 8XR , dual signal path at independent sample rates. ie. 2 A/D's or D/A's or 1 A/D and 1 D/A at different sample rates. BIG selling point for us.

2 phase locked loops?