Masterers using Hi-pass in their mastering of tracks

[8080JP]

I recently released a track on CD.

It was a trance like CD single.

When I was putting it all together, I did not bother about whether there was too much boom below 50 Hz.

I wanted powerful bass and if there was any problem, the masterer would fix it up.

Anyway , the masterer cleverly used a Hi-pass on one of the notches of a 10 notch Eq plug in. I think it was to get rid of excess bass, he said, which speakers would not like.

I was worried that all the thumping bass I put in would get lost. however when playing on car systems and a number of peoples stereo systems he was right and it still had good bass but heaps better than my original version where speakers on systems had a distortion type of sound.

Anyway, I am working on a new track and have realised my mistake.

Just wondering if this use of high-pass is a standard thing to do for masterers in the mastering process and why do they not use a simple low cut.

With my new track I am wondering whether i should put high passes or low cuts on each individual track.

When I listen to some Ministry of Sound CD's the bottom end is great but the below 40 Hz is nicely done according to analysers and I dont know whether is is the result of mastering using hi pass or low cut or already treated in the mix presented to a masterer.
Just wondering if I was not in the know here and it is standard to either to treat the below 40HZ on all tracks or in the mixdown before presenting to the masterer.

I would like my second track (more House like) to be more like Ministry of Sound in quality and dont know if what I present to the masterer should be tracks where individual tracks and/or are already treating the below 40 or 50 hertz.

My first track was quite difficult to fix up.

[Nordenstam]

Hi!

Originally Posted by 8080JP

Just wondering if this use of high-pass is a standard thing to do for masterers in the mastering process and why do they not use a simple low cut.

I think the masterer listened and fixed what he heard as a problem in that specific track. Processing is only done as needed on a per-track basis. There is no standard in mastering!

"You use what you need with the settings you need when you need them"
- John Scrip

Originally Posted by 8080JP

With my new track I am wondering whether i should put high passes or low cuts on each individual track.

What's the difference?

[8080JP]

Originally Posted by Lupo

Hi!



I think the masterer listened and fixed what he heard as a problem in that specific track. Processing is only done as needed on a per-track basis. There is no standard in mastering!

"You use what you need with the settings you need when you need them"
- John Scrip




What's the difference?

Hi Passes have a shape on them according to say the Wav Arts Track Plug 4, or on Logic channel eq
while I believe a Low cut is a straight elimination of frequencies under whatever is chosen.

Is this so?

Who is this John Scrip fellow?

[Riccardo]

John Script is a mastering engineer. You can find his posts around here if you do a search.
What Lupo meant is that we don't usually default to cutting. We do what the track needs. In other words if there is a problem the issue is addressed accordingly and within that track. Sometimes we use a low cut (high pass) sometimes a shelf cut, sometimes a notch, sometimes a combination of those. If the track doesn't need it we leave it as it is.

Getting the bass to sound the way you want it while achieving translation across different reproduction systems takes time (i.e. experience) and a good monitoring system is vital. In other words you will need a system (monitor speakers and room) that is accurate down to the 40Hz you mention.

[Nordenstam]

Originally Posted by 8080JP

Hi Passes have a shape on them according to say the Wav Arts Track Plug 4, or on Logic channel eq
while I believe a Low cut is a straight elimination of frequencies under whatever is chosen.

Is this so?

I think the terms are used at whim of the designer. The ~70Hz high pass filter on desks are often labelled low cut. It's surely not a brick wall sloped filter!

There is no such thing as a straight elimination of frequencies. All filters have their issues, especially so as they get to be very sharp in the transition slope between the passband and the stopband.

PS: John is not only an ME, he's also an ardent motorcyclist.

[Adam Dempsey]

Originally Posted by 8080JP

When I listen to some Ministry of Sound CD's the bottom end is great but the below 40 Hz is nicely done according to analysers and I don't know whether is is the result of mastering using hi pass or low cut or already treated in the mix presented to a masterer.

As usual the sound is mostly in the mix. We get a bit of MOS stuff and, as with most things, hpf'ing is not used anywhere near as often as some may think.
Maybe see also this thread if you haven't already.

[Adam Dempsey]

Originally Posted by Lupo

I think the terms are used at whim of the designer. The ~70Hz high pass filter on desks are often labelled low cut. It's surely not a brick wall sloped filter!

I suspect come confusion over hpf (aka low cut) vs low shelf..

Originally Posted by Lupo

PS: John is not only an ME, he's also an ardent motorcyclist.

(who I'm sure would also say hi as he passes...)

[Nordenstam]

Blatant punnage warning:

Originally Posted by Adam Dempsey

(who I'm sure would also say hi as he passes...)

I'll pass the habit on. <deftly waves clutch hand to all bikers in here> We'll hopefully meet on a beautiful pass one day!

[8080JP]

Low Cut and High Pass especially High pass on a 10 notch eq plug in are two different things.

I know so, BEEEEEEEEEEEEE CAUSE

in Logic 8, in the single band eq choices

YOU CAN CHOOSE Low Cut and Hi pass.

THe Hi Pass is similar in look to a high shelve apart from the shape is opposite if you guys know what I mean.


Wannabees 1 Star ME's 0

[Nordenstam]

Hi!

It's no contest. Chill out. The plugin you use obviously have that terminology. The way of using those words like that in that context is apt for that particular purpose. That's all good. Though, one plug is a bit thin to be used as an empirical base of data to draw a general conclusion for any and all filters. Try some more plugs and/or hardware units and see if they conform to those ideas! You could also try typing the words into the search bar on google.com. I checked it now to see that it does work as intended by searching 'low cut high pass'. What do you know; the very first line in the first hit address this exact issue. What a coincidence!

Back on topic: try high passing the tracks that do not have bass and should not have bass. Leave the rest alone unless there's a problem with it. It's better to have too much bass that can be filtered out than to be stuck with a lack of bass. Just make sure there's a balance between bass line and bass drum. Having them at wildly different levels is much more problematic than having generally too much or too little. Mix to your best abilities, try the track on a wide range of speakers(preferably including big PA systems) and deliver the best you can do to mastering.

[MTStudios]

Originally Posted by 8080JP

THe Hi Pass is similar in look to a high shelve apart from the shape is opposite if you guys know what I mean.


Wannabees 1 Star ME's 0

http://www.electriclarryland.com/ima...xes/HiPass.jpg

http://fuzzbass.fuzzphoto.eu/pictures/filt_hs.jpg

Two completely different things. A high shelf can be used to make boosts or additions, from minute to gigantic, affecting all frequencies above the selected frequency.
A high pass will simply cut all frequencies below the selected frequency, the only control you really have is the slope, but it's nothing like a high or low shelf.

Also, the number of notches on an EQ has no bearing on the type, or character, of the filters it will have.

I believe the two different terms for high pass/low cut come from the American and British consoles. From memory, the brits called it high pass and the Americans called it low cut.

[chironomidae]

There are 5 main types of filters, with some variations. In a nutshell:

Low Pass - cuts everything above the threshold
High Shelf - raises or lowers everything above the threshold depending on gain
Notch - raises or lowers the area around the threshold depending on gain
Low Shelf - raises or lowers everything below the threshold depending on gain
High Pass - cuts everything below the threshold

There are other things like band pass and resonant shelfs and passes, but those are the main five.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by chironomidae

There are 5 main types of filters, with some variations. In a nutshell they are these (skipping the specifics of the freq point vs. the curve shape at that point)

Low Pass a.k.a. High Cut - cuts everything above the threshold at a slope that varies in steepness

High Shelf - raises or lowers everything above the threshold depending on gain and shape of the shelf

Notch - raises or lowers the area around the threshold depending on gain and Q

Low Shelf - raises or lowers everything below the threshold depending on gain and shape of the shelf

High Pass a.k.a. Low Cut - cuts everything below the threshold at a slope that varies in steepness

a few more details added to your fine post ...

[mdoelger]

low cut is named low cut because it cuts off the lower fequencies relative to its setting.

Hi pass is named hi pass because it lets higher frequencies pass relative to its setting.

In my point of view these are the same.

[psykostx]

Usually, I like to get high before I pass.

Seriously though... Books are better than forums when you are learning! Expect to learn some physics principles first... you don't neccessarily have to be able to solve equations, but that really helps in having a functional understanding. That said, dynamic math (calculus) is hard, so expect to shrivel up and cry after you dip your big toe in the water. Look into simple waveform algebra...phase, harmonics, freqency spectrum, fletcher-munson curves, blah blah blah...sleeping yet?

If you turn your bass up on the monitors you mix on, then your mastering engineer won't have to take too much away down there, however he or she chooses to do so, because you will use less bass when you mix.

Actually most would say to shelf the high's. Because boosting causes phasing and distortion. Even better would be to not use those frequencies at all when you mix, and then simply check them on a sub every once in a while.

[psykostx]

Originally Posted by Lupo

Mix to your best abilities, try the track on a wide range of speakers(preferably including big PA systems) and deliver the best you can do to mastering.

Yes I agree/noticed that PA speakers' requirements for being really loud and at the same time maintaining a low noise floor make them ideal for certain other applications despite their less than ideal distortion characteristics...

Thanks for confirming my suspiscions!