Frequency-based stereo panning VST?

[Trace]

Okay, this might be a little bit long, and some of it unnecessary, but try and bear with me.

I hope it's in the right place as well, but I guess it would be a mastering plugin.

About... 6 months ago, I had this crazy idea. I was considering panning, eqs, levels, etc... And I had a light bulb. What if I could pan the higher frequencies outward (separation), and keep the lower frequencies in the middle instead of having an entire track in one place? Could I put more stuff in one 'place'?

I brought the idea to my friend's attention, whom is an engineer. He said "I haven't ever seen anything like that." Then, with a rather pleasing look of contemplation, and presumably wracked with thoughts of possible implications, he said "... I need to go think about that!" and proceeded to the bathroom. LOL

So I made it... No easy task. Well it wasn't the worst one I've done, but it took a lot of time and... Mouse/keyboard labor. A lot of repetition. Hehe. I didn't want to do anything like highpass/lowpass, I wanted more control. I split the entire stream into 20 stereo bands. This allows for you to put your left channel out to 100% left for example, and put your right at 50% right. Not that it will really work excactly that way once you output to your next effect/monitor, but it does sort of give you a visual (and somewhat mathematical) outlook on the end result. It also has a level control on left and right of each band, so you could make the entire track only play through your left speaker for whatever stupid reason, or just part. You could make the bass drum pan left, make it loud and angry, then somewhat separate a... tambourine... and pan it to the right, and lower it. Horrendous example, unless your two kids play a bass drum and tambourine, and the little brats hid all of your mics but one, play but you catch my drift.

Here's a completely F$#@$% useless diagram, clearly chock full of latent professionalism:



(Just for the record, I think it sounds pretty smooth. Ignore the sharp edges! lol)

Not that you would want to do something that god awful... But hopefully it kind of shows you how, at least how my mind sees it, you can split a regular stream up, widen it, invert it, etc. I sort of figured that you could fit more of same frequencies. I explained it in layman's terms to a musician buddy - instead of parking 8 cars (1 audio track) in one of my 20 garages (split bands), why not park 1 of each car each in 8 garages, so I can fit more? (if two trains heading toward Chicago...)

If I were doing a bass, a cello, a viola, and a violin in Miroslav, I could fit more in the same places, right? I can keep the frequencies where I want them... Instead of having the lows and highs in the same place. If I had a guitar in drop D, I really don't want that angry low D and A directly 'underneath' the pinch harmonics I was doing on B. What happens when I want to add a piano and an oboe? What about a piano, an oboe, a piccolo, a clarinet, a french horn, etc, etc. Certainly doable miking a real philharmonic performance, but probably a bit more difficult when you're trying to synthesize each instrument, yes?

Again, not that you would need to use it for that, I wouldn't know from experience. But I feel that, regardless of whether it's been done, or to what extent, this sort of thing opens up a few unique options. I haven't tried using it on sends or a master track yet, but I might play with that. I will get some audio examples of what I've brewed up in a few days, but first I'll need a few days to procure the files from my buddy's house, since I seem to have accidentally deleted the copy here. dfegad

The same friend looked at the product when I finished it, and during a lengthy discussion, he squinted and said "........ ACOUSTICALLY TRANSPARENT." I was like... WAT? Then my brain started on fire. So I thought about making it like a paragraphic EQ, so you could have an even more gradual effect, Q, etc... but honestly, 20 bands... Personally, I think that it sounds pretty nice as-is, even if I decide not to jump into that horrendous mathematical nightmare.

Thanks for reading. Any interest? Questions, comments?
I'll be sure to upload it somewhere soon, and let you all play with it.

Amy

[toastchee]

Actually FLStudio (formerly Fruity Loops) has this and it is funnnnnn to play with! I wish I could remember the name of the plugin....

[Trace]

SON OF A

Oh well, I happen to have FLStudio, I used to use it for electronic stuff, and I still use it for making loops. I'll have to go in there and turn every plugin inside out until I find it... Then figure out how I can make mine much better.

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by Trace

. What if I could pan the higher frequencies outward (separation), and keep the lower frequencies in the middle instead of having an entire track in one place? Could I put more stuff in one 'place'?

FWIW - Lexicon has had a program called "Stereo Adjust" for some time that works on this same principle. It actually works very well.

I know the 300L has it and can't remember if my 480 had it as well...

[Trace]

Hehe, alright, alright. So very similar things have been done.

Would any of you use such a thing?

I will post it soon, and you can offer suggestions for improvement!

[spm_gl]

What if I could pan the higher frequencies outward (separation), and keep the lower frequencies in the middle

Elliptical Filter. Used for mastering vinyl, among other things. Don't know any technical details though.

[Delta Heavy]

hey

think sonalksis - stereotools plugin does exactly what you're talking about

i use it all the time for mixing - never on a whole track though

[B.A.S.E]

Oh i have been looking for that as well...especially to try it on a piano... mainly because I was told the different freq of a piano don't migrate the same as far as panning is concerned...
good thread

[bmanic]

You can of course do this with any EQ that has separate Left and Right channel control by combining this power with mid/side encoding and decoding.

Cheers!
bManic

[kosmasepsilon]

or this: NuGen Audio Stereoplacer – Stereo Positioning EQ Plugin, VST and AU

[Trace]

lol... Alright, we've established that it's been done even more times.

Does anybody WANT such a plugin, my VST creations are always free, and I asked because I would be willing to modify it if anyone saw real value in it.

Amy

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by Trace

Does anybody WANT such a plugin, my VST creations are always free, and I asked because I would be willing to modify it if anyone saw real value in it.

Do you have a website people can download from? or you can post it up on some forums and get some feedback?

[Trace]

I do have a web site. I will post it on there once I obtain it, and I will link you in this thread.

[t_d]

don't forget Ozone has a 4-band stereo width section. i've never gotten along with it well, but people do seem to like it.

[t_d]

wasn't aware of the Sonalksis plug until this thread... just trying the demo now and i LOVE it. i master a lot of ambient music and space is key. Waves S-1 has always been my favorite.. until now.

the bass mono is great to have for vinyl masters, too. right now i use Brainworx just for bass mono'ing, but i'm not keen on their width processing.

going to play with the Sonalksis some more, but i think i've finally found something that i like better than good ole S-1

[lerone]

Originally Posted by Trace

Okay, this might be a little bit long, and some of it unnecessary, but try and bear with me.

I hope it's in the right place as well, but I guess it would be a mastering plugin.

About... 6 months ago, I had this crazy idea. I was considering panning, eqs, levels, etc... And I had a light bulb. What if I could pan the higher frequencies outward (separation), and keep the lower frequencies in the middle instead of having an entire track in one place? Could I put more stuff in one 'place'?

I brought the idea to my friend's attention, whom is an engineer. He said "I haven't ever seen anything like that." Then, with a rather pleasing look of contemplation, and presumably wracked with thoughts of possible implications, he said "... I need to go think about that!" and proceeded to the bathroom. LOL

So I made it... No easy task. Well it wasn't the worst one I've done, but it took a lot of time and... Mouse/keyboard labor. A lot of repetition. Hehe. I didn't want to do anything like highpass/lowpass, I wanted more control. I split the entire stream into 20 stereo bands. This allows for you to put your left channel out to 100% left for example, and put your right at 50% right. Not that it will really work excactly that way once you output to your next effect/monitor, but it does sort of give you a visual (and somewhat mathematical) outlook on the end result. It also has a level control on left and right of each band, so you could make the entire track only play through your left speaker for whatever stupid reason, or just part. You could make the bass drum pan left, make it loud and angry, then somewhat separate a... tambourine... and pan it to the right, and lower it. Horrendous example, unless your two kids play a bass drum and tambourine, and the little brats hid all of your mics but one, play but you catch my drift.

Here's a completely F$#@$% useless diagram, clearly chock full of latent professionalism:



(Just for the record, I think it sounds pretty smooth. Ignore the sharp edges! lol)

Not that you would want to do something that god awful... But hopefully it kind of shows you how, at least how my mind sees it, you can split a regular stream up, widen it, invert it, etc. I sort of figured that you could fit more of same frequencies. I explained it in layman's terms to a musician buddy - instead of parking 8 cars (1 audio track) in one of my 20 garages (split bands), why not park 1 of each car each in 8 garages, so I can fit more? (if two trains heading toward Chicago...)

If I were doing a bass, a cello, a viola, and a violin in Miroslav, I could fit more in the same places, right? I can keep the frequencies where I want them... Instead of having the lows and highs in the same place. If I had a guitar in drop D, I really don't want that angry low D and A directly 'underneath' the pinch harmonics I was doing on B. What happens when I want to add a piano and an oboe? What about a piano, an oboe, a piccolo, a clarinet, a french horn, etc, etc. Certainly doable miking a real philharmonic performance, but probably a bit more difficult when you're trying to synthesize each instrument, yes?

Again, not that you would need to use it for that, I wouldn't know from experience. But I feel that, regardless of whether it's been done, or to what extent, this sort of thing opens up a few unique options. I haven't tried using it on sends or a master track yet, but I might play with that. I will get some audio examples of what I've brewed up in a few days, but first I'll need a few days to procure the files from my buddy's house, since I seem to have accidentally deleted the copy here. dfegad

The same friend looked at the product when I finished it, and during a lengthy discussion, he squinted and said "........ ACOUSTICALLY TRANSPARENT." I was like... WAT? Then my brain started on fire. So I thought about making it like a paragraphic EQ, so you could have an even more gradual effect, Q, etc... but honestly, 20 bands... Personally, I think that it sounds pretty nice as-is, even if I decide not to jump into that horrendous mathematical nightmare.

Thanks for reading. Any interest? Questions, comments?
I'll be sure to upload it somewhere soon, and let you all play with it.

Amy

Voxengos Soniformer 2 does this better than anything I know of and more. It spans 32 bands, with apparently more with high sample rates. Also handles multi band / spectral panning. Soniformer is a beast to say the least!

[lerone]

Originally Posted by t_d

wasn't aware of the Sonalksis plug until this thread... just trying the demo now and i LOVE it. i master a lot of ambient music and space is key. Waves S-1 has always been my favorite.. until now.

the bass mono is great to have for vinyl masters, too. right now i use Brainworx just for bass mono'ing, but i'm not keen on their width processing.

going to play with the Sonalksis some more, but i think i've finally found something that i like better than good ole S-1

Vinyl can reproduce an out-of-phase signal, (quadraphonic?!) so the need for mono bass is actually a bit of a myth to be honest, it is more practical to do so though. Just thought I'd add this.

[Hane]

Originally Posted by lerone

Vinyl can reproduce an out-of-phase signal, (quadraphonic?!) so the need for mono bass is actually a bit of a myth to be honest, it is more practical to do so though. Just thought I'd add this.

I'm confused by your statement. Where's the relevance of quadraphonics in this thread?

[Trace]

Nice to see that there are so many of these types of plugins already. Pandora might be a little bit more stripped down than many of those, but it's going for the modest price of 0.00 USD. I hope I can convince some people to try it and maybe even give me suggestions. ;]

I still need to contact my friend, he's so damn busy recording that I only get to hang out with him like once every few months. :[

Hang in there, just use your super deluxe 192k spectral panning plugin for now. Hehe