K-System Metering

badhorsie777 · 2nd July 2009

Can any of you K-system gurus (or creators) tell me if T-Racks 3 Deluxe's metering plugin will give me what I need to know to use the K-system? I'm going to do some acoustic treatment and monitor calibration (long overdue) for my home studio... Basically, what info do I need to see in order to properly implement the k-14/k-12/etc. metering?

btw, here's a shot of the t-racks3 metering:
T-RackS 3 Singles

Thanks - gonna try to do some reading on the subject, but you guys may save me some time.

-Matt

bob katz · 2nd July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by badhorsie777

Can any of you K-system gurus (or creators) tell me if T-Racks 3 Deluxe's metering plugin will give me what I need to know to use the K-system? I'm going to do some acoustic treatment and monitor calibration (long overdue) for my home studio... Basically, what info do I need to see in order to properly implement the k-14/k-12/etc. metering?

btw, here's a shot of the t-racks3 metering:
T-RackS 3 Singles

Thanks - gonna try to do some reading on the subject, but you guys may save me some time.

-Matt

I suggest you get more details from T-Racks themselves. As them what is this "real perceived loudness meter"? Ask them what its characteristics are, integration (rise) time, release time, weighting filter. Otherwise they're blowing smoke. And regardless, no matter what meter, the ears are king, remember that. You don't want to have a ballad at the same loudness as the rock number, do you? That's what a "true loudness" meter would tell you!

BK

badhorsie777 · 2nd July 2009

Wow! Thanks! I can definitely do that. I just got done reading Level Practices (Part 2)

Level Practices (Part 2) (Includes the K-System)

and am sold on the idea. I'm getting a radioshack spl meter this afternoon when my wife finishes her errands and relieves me from baby duty

I was wondering if the RMS metering would be enough to let me know where I am? I use Logic 8, so the metering in there is pretty thin - I can get peak and rms on the same display, a more basic version of what T-Racks is showing in their metering.

Is it as simple as calibrating my monitors for 83db using a -20dbfs test tone? I obviously need to re-read the paper, as I realize while typing this that I'm fuzzy on what exactly the steps are to implement this. I want to mix at k-20 and shoot for mastering projects (when I do an in-house job) for k-14...

-Matt

bob katz · 2nd July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by badhorsie777

Is it as simple as calibrating my monitors for 83db using a -20dbfs test tone? I obviously need to re-read the paper, as I realize while typing this that I'm fuzzy on what exactly the steps are to implement this. I want to mix at k-20 and shoot for mastering projects (when I do an in-house job) for k-14...

-Matt

Hi, Matt. It's almost that simple. There's a recipe in a similar thread in this forum. Please do a search. Try searching for the phrase "83 dB" and "-20 dBFS" and you should find the thread.

badhorsie777 · 3rd July 2009

Mr. Katz,

I found:

OK, then. Do you have an SPL meter? Play one speaker at a time (if necessary disconnect the input cable from the monitor amp). Use the pink noise test signal that's -20 dBFS RMS. Play it in stereo, do not change any pan pots or level controls UP TO THE MONITOR control. Leave the individual pan pots set to left and right, or if it's a single stereo position panpot, set it to the middle. Leave all early level controls at 0 dB and turn off all equalizers or compressors in the recording chain.

Find a convenient mark on the monitor gain fader that's going to be called 0 dB. Adjust the gain of the monitor amplifier for 83 dB SPL, C weighted, slow. Then make marks on the fader every dB, or at least every 2 dB. Around 0 dB to -2 dB will correspond with a K-20. At around -6 to -8 dB is going to correspond with a K-14 for normal-hearing individuals. At around -8 to -10 dB is going to be a K-12.

Mix to your ears and generally ignore the meters. If mixing, you can mix to a K-20, completely ignore the meters and get a great recording. If it ends up with a peak to -6 dBFS that's still fine. In that case it represents a "K-14" recording that's been offset by 6 dB.... I hope this helps. It's a description in a nutshell.

BK

My question is - I have Logic 8 and my mixing monitors are Yamaha hr50m's... they have level knobs on the back... can I play back the test tone, turn one speaker off, and adjust the monitors' input gain on the back til I get 83db, C weighted, slow? Repeat with the other? I think that can work (I may get a monitor gain controller knob for out front, but for the immediate situation it may work?)... then what should I do with my faders in Logic? Should I do the test with my master fader down from its "zero" point?

Thanks for your help - I know you're a busy man and I'm just getting into the engineering side of music making.

-Matt

bob katz · 3rd July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by badhorsie777

Mr. Katz,

I found:

Snip. I'm glad you found it! It's the right answer (without getting fancy about using narrow band PN)

Quote:

My question is - I have Logic 8 and my mixing monitors are Yamaha hr50m's... they have level knobs on the back... can I play back the test tone, turn one speaker off, and adjust the monitors' input gain on the back til I get 83db, C weighted, slow? Repeat with the other? I think that can work (I may get a monitor gain controller knob for out front, but for the immediate situation it may work?)... then what should I do with my faders in Logic? Should I do the test with my master fader down from its "zero" point?

For the calibration part that will work, but you need a monitor fader that's calibrated. If you can allocate a pair of Logic's faders strictly to the monitor path, then you should calibrate this with Logic's faders set to 0 dB. DO NOT DO THIS WITH THE SO-CALLED "MASTER" FADER because that's in the record path. You need a separate monitor path for this to work.

Hope this helps, glad to help if I can.

Bob

hugo · 24th August 2009

There is a volume slider bottom right of Logic arrange window, next to transport controls. It is an overall volume control..

My RTA shows it to be calibrated fine but check it when you've set your monitor gains.

2nd July 2009	#1
badhorsie777 Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 583 Thread Starter	K-System Metering Can any of you K-system gurus (or creators) tell me if T-Racks 3 Deluxe's metering plugin will give me what I need to know to use the K-system? I'm going to do some acoustic treatment and monitor calibration (long overdue) for my home studio... Basically, what info do I need to see in order to properly implement the k-14/k-12/etc. metering? btw, here's a shot of the t-racks3 metering: T-RackS 3 Singles Thanks - gonna try to do some reading on the subject, but you guys may save me some time. -Matt

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3rd July 2009	#5
badhorsie777 Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 583 Thread Starter	Mr. Katz, I found: OK, then. Do you have an SPL meter? Play one speaker at a time (if necessary disconnect the input cable from the monitor amp). Use the pink noise test signal that's -20 dBFS RMS. Play it in stereo, do not change any pan pots or level controls UP TO THE MONITOR control. Leave the individual pan pots set to left and right, or if it's a single stereo position panpot, set it to the middle. Leave all early level controls at 0 dB and turn off all equalizers or compressors in the recording chain. Find a convenient mark on the monitor gain fader that's going to be called 0 dB. Adjust the gain of the monitor amplifier for 83 dB SPL, C weighted, slow. Then make marks on the fader every dB, or at least every 2 dB. Around 0 dB to -2 dB will correspond with a K-20. At around -6 to -8 dB is going to correspond with a K-14 for normal-hearing individuals. At around -8 to -10 dB is going to be a K-12. Mix to your ears and generally ignore the meters. If mixing, you can mix to a K-20, completely ignore the meters and get a great recording. If it ends up with a peak to -6 dBFS that's still fine. In that case it represents a "K-14" recording that's been offset by 6 dB.... I hope this helps. It's a description in a nutshell. BK My question is - I have Logic 8 and my mixing monitors are Yamaha hr50m's... they have level knobs on the back... can I play back the test tone, turn one speaker off, and adjust the monitors' input gain on the back til I get 83db, C weighted, slow? Repeat with the other? I think that can work (I may get a monitor gain controller knob for out front, but for the immediate situation it may work?)... then what should I do with my faders in Logic? Should I do the test with my master fader down from its "zero" point? Thanks for your help - I know you're a busy man and I'm just getting into the engineering side of music making. -Matt

24th August 2009	#7
hugo Gear interested Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 5	There is a volume slider bottom right of Logic arrange window, next to transport controls. It is an overall volume control.. My RTA shows it to be calibrated fine but check it when you've set your monitor gains.