URG: Pressing Plant Issue with DDP and Master CD

[ONDRAY]

The DDP file folder created from Wave Editor was 779.8MB and the pressing plant is telling me they couldn't detect which software was made to create this DDP. Also that "Are you sure this will fit on a CD, it's 780MB"

All Wav. File Size: 779.8 MB
CD Length: 77:37:32

Are CD's that are pressed at plant not capable of handling that size and/or length. I can burn a CD fine on my end.

How large should a DDP file folder be for a full CD? When I burned the CD from Wave Editor it fit fine on a CD.

The Master CD I gave them supposedly had a scratch on it. I checked it with headphones before handing it over and it played fine for me.

Help, what to do

[bkuijt]

I had never checked it before, so I just looked at one of my masters: the DDP folder of a project is just as big as the 16 bit wav file (give or take a few kB).
It's aprox 10,08 MB per minute of audio, for 780MB that would be aprox. 77:22 minutes. Only you know if that is correct.

edit:
ah, it seems you have been editing your post.
74 minutes is standard to the red-book format, anything over 74 minutes is special and it's different per factory how they handle that. Make sure to call them about this and check if they can press this and at who's risk.

[ONDRAY]

thanks for the details.

Most plants I've delt with can handle up to 78min gauranteed.

What are the work arounds if indeed the plant is only capable of pressing 74min?

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by ONDRAY

thanks for the details.

Most plants I've delt with can handle up to 78min gauranteed.

What are the work arounds if indeed the plant is only capable of pressing 74min?

Using a different plant!

The main issue is that when you go over about 74:36 length the track pitch for the glass master has to be set slightly tighter than what was specified in the original Red Book specs. The plant that is stating 74:00 as max limit either has old mastering equipment or it is reluctant to do "over length" discs due to the additional quality control and compatablity issues (which these days are fairly minor) they create.

So it might be possible if the plant states for some reason that 74:00 is their max limit you could have another facility do the glass mastering and have them send stampers to the plants specs to the pressing plant. But if you did this I have a feeling the plant that states 74:00 as their disc length limit would not be willing to warrant any discs made free of defects.

Best thing to do to me is go to a plant that doesn't have an issue with pressing longer lengths.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[ONDRAY]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

Using a different plant!

The main issue is that when you go over about 74:36 length the track pitch for the glass master has to be set slightly tighter than what was specified in the original Red Book specs. The plant that is stating 74:00 as max limit either has old mastering equipment or it is reluctant to do "over length" discs due to the additional quality control and compatablity issues (which these days are fairly minor) they create.

So it might be possible if the plant states for some reason that 74:00 is their max limit you could have another facility do the glass mastering and have them send stampers to the plants specs to the pressing plant. But if you did this I have a feeling the plant that states 74:00 as their disc length limit would not be willing to warrant any discs made free of defects.

Best thing to do to me is go to a plant that doesn't have an issue with pressing longer lengths.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Main thing

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Thanks Steve, great info. I'll recommend that to the client. Just glad the issue doesn't seem to be on my side.

[finetuner]

Originally Posted by ONDRAY

...The Master CD I gave them supposedly had a scratch on it. I checked it with headphones before handing it over and it played fine for me...

Obviously there is a point where a disc will play fine seemingly but with error correction working too hard for any plant's standards.

I had a disc rejected by the plant once (when my error checker went down and time was short) that played fine but it had a pinhole in the mirror layer visible by the eye ! And that was a TY btw.

[Left/Right]

couple notes

1. the plant i worked at doing data integrity didn't like ddp for audio, simply because we were running copyright checks on all music and weren't able to do this on ddp audio discs. we often accepted and encouraged ddp for dvds however.

2. ddp is in rom usually mode I or cd xa format for cds, and as long as i worked there, we did not accept discs over 650 MB or in audio format over 76:30 without a disclaimer. with disclaimer we would go to 700MB or right up to 80 min but it was not suggested to go over that. pm for company info if you're interested...one in Texas, one in Canada.

3. there are some variations in data size MB vs MiB vs windows disc size that i never understood, but the usual calculation was 700MB = 80 min for a full audio cd. not sure how the gentleman above got his calculations unless i'm missing something...which i might be. he is correct in that i believe ddp should only be a few kb off from the audio disc since it is simply an image.

4. the only thing i can think of right now is that perhaps you are making a ddp disc of a rom cd with higher bit wave files...instead of a ddp disc (image) of a music cd using 16 bit files. could that be your problem?

hope that helps, i may have confused something...


*edit

also, scratches happen, sometimes more often then we like. sometime our testing software will register CU errors (usually physical damage or occasionally bad media) even when they are not visible or even if it plays fine. Just because it plays fine on one player, doesn't mean it will in all. Always good to include 2 copies (1 master 1 backup) for this reason.

[ONDRAY]

hey Left/Right, thanks for the info.

Point #4 of yours raised a red flag. But according to Wave Editor’s respondent in the below thread link, DDP files created in Wave Editor are always 16-bit and luckily for Ivo he had no problems with the plant using the same DDP creation software I used.

Wave Editor Help with DDP export

Clearly this Plant in Asia have issues. The time difference and language barriers aren’t helping either.

[bkuijt]

Originally Posted by Left/Right

...
3. there are some variations in data size MB vs MiB vs windows disc size that i never understood, but the usual calculation was 700MB = 80 min for a full audio cd. not sure how the gentleman above got his calculations unless i'm missing something...which i might be. he is correct in that i believe ddp should only be a few kb off from the audio disc since it is simply an image.
...

Hi, aren't the two figures (700 MB vs 80 minutes) seperate numbers? one for red-book playing time and the other for yellow-book data storage capacity?
I don't think 700MB is a measure for the amount of audio data at 44.1kHz/16bit to fit on a CD (that would be aprox 800MB for 80 minutes).
This also agrees with ONDRAY's data in the first post.

bests,

[ONDRAY]

thanks For the help. just to keep you guys posted. The plant will press the CD's Off the PQ sheet and the master wav. files, With a disclaimer clearing them of any responsibility if errors occur.