WaveLab mastering problem - levels

[ibanezman_98]

I have 10 songs album in WAV 48k 24bit files. When mastering in WaveLab using montage (converted to 32 bit floating) I encounter a strange annoyance:

My brickwall limiter is set to -0.03 dB (last in FX chain). When I apply all necessary plugins and dither with UV22HR, and render the files (montage) to 44.1k 16bit, overall level and all peaks rise up to 0 dB. I have tried to set the brickwall limiter to -0.06 dB, but the final 44.1k 16 bit montage level still climbs up to 0 dB.

I do not have this problem when I convert all the files to 44.1k 32bit float prior to mastering.

Am I missing something here? What's the catch?
Any hints, or I have to convert the files to 44.1k from the start?

Thank you.

[FBM]

Hi, Master in 32 bits like you did except for limiting, then convert, then limit and at the end dither.
You can also convert before, because 44.1 or 48 will not give a big difference in sound.
Good luck David

[sanddigger1]

Resampling slightly changes the peak level. Search for "intersample peaks", there are interesting threads on this forum.

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by ibanezman_98

I have 10 songs album in WAV 48k 24bit files. When mastering in WaveLab using montage (converted to 32 bit floating) I encounter a strange annoyance:

My brickwall limiter is set to -0.03 dB (last in FX chain). When I apply all necessary plugins and dither with UV22HR, and render the files (montage) to 44.1k 16bit, overall level and all peaks rise up to 0 dB. I have tried to set the brickwall limiter to -0.06 dB, but the final 44.1k 16 bit montage level still climbs up to 0 dB.

I do not have this problem when I convert all the files to 44.1k 32bit float prior to mastering.

Am I missing something here? What's the catch?
Any hints, or I have to convert the files to 44.1k from the start?

Thank you.

What you describe is giving all the signs of a SRC at work!

Go through your system and check that the sample rate is not getting converted somewhere along the line.

If you are knowingly using an SRC to convert your audio down to 44.1k, that is the reason for you loss of level control!

[FBM]

I WROTE:
Hi, Master in 32 bits like you did except for limiting, then convert, then limit and at the end dither.
You can also convert before, because 44.1 or 48 will not give a big difference in sound.
Good luck David

No! Table of Tone when you read his post carefully you can see that he makes a simple mistake.
And when he takes the above steps the way I wrote the problem is solved.

David

[ibanezman_98]

Thanks guys. I did some research as suggested, and indeed it's all about SRC and intersample peaks.
It seems like a logical solution is to do the EQ, Compression .... in 48k and then render the montage to 44.1*, and THEN apply limiting and dither.

*So, no dither in conversion from 48k 32bit to 44.1k 32 bit?

Thx again

[FBM]

*So, no dither in conversion from 48k 32bit to 44.1k 32 bit?

No, because your still on the same bit depth.
David

[ibanezman_98]

Great!!! Problem solved.
Thank you very much.

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by FBM

I WROTE:
Hi, Master in 32 bits like you did except for limiting, then convert, then limit and at the end dither.
You can also convert before, because 44.1 or 48 will not give a big difference in sound.
Good luck David

No! Table of Tone when you read his post carefully you can see that he makes a simple mistake.
And when he takes the above steps the way I wrote the problem is solved.

David

Actually, Yes!
The mistake adds up to exactly what I said before!
He was doing SRC after he set his ceiling with the limiter he was using.
Hence, the loss of level control.

[FBM]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

What you describe is giving all the signs of a SRC at work!

Go through your system and check that the sample rate is not getting converted somewhere along the line.

Hi, Table of Tone The reason I responded that way is only because you talk about the sample rate not getting converted "some where along the line". And I think it has to be not "some where along the line" but on a specific point in the mastering chain.
The way I explained it makes you understand exactly where or where not to convert!
Your advice with all respect is a bit vague.
The problem was not that the sample rate was converted but at what point!
Greetings David

[Table Of Tone]

My point was that it was ultimately SRC that causing the overs.
I've seen this many times and never known a particular SRC that doesn't cause this problem.
That's why I run two systems and no longer use any SRC.
I just wanted to quickly help the guy, not argue with anyone!
Cheers

[FBM]

Me to!
Dvid