Any downsides to using CD Text?

[Andrew_Chart]

Just curious really. I only really "master" my own work for giving to friends or selling to a few people at a gig. I've never really put CD text on (using Waveburner by the way) because I wasn't sure if there was any chance that it would stop the CD from working on some CD players?

I'm aware that the information won't come up on a lot of players, but is there any downside to including it anyway?

Thanks
Andy

[Darius van H]

The downsides are:

In my experience, a lot of people simply do not check things very carefully, including the track lists that they give. This means that I'm often asked to make a new master after I've made the master, 'cause they made a mistake with titles. When I say there's gonna be an extra charge, people sometimes complain .

So, the way I deal with this is to always ask for a "final confirmation for the CD text info" of the tracklist / cd title / artist name just before i make the master, regardless of whether they gave me the info already - this seems to help focus minds and reduce problems of the above nature.

Good luck!

[Andy Krehm]

Originally Posted by Andrew_Chart

Just curious really. I only really "master" my own work for giving to friends or selling to a few people at a gig. I've never really put CD text on (using Waveburner by the way) because I wasn't sure if there was any chance that it would stop the CD from working on some CD players?

I'm aware that the information won't come up on a lot of players, but is there any downside to including it anyway?

Thanks
Andy

As Darius says, you have to be very careful to make sure the client approves the CD-TEXT. When they attend, I have them look it over before I burn the master, plus the text is on the CD cover so if they did make a mistake, they will notice it later and can still correct it.

Clients not attending get an email with the CD-TEXT and don't get a master sent without approving the text. That way, if any mistakes are made and a new mater has to be cut, they can't (and usually don't) argue about paying for it.

On the technical side, accents don't show up properly so we leave them out plus other characters like "&" may not either. After I write a master, checking the CD-TEXT via software is one of the proofing process I do.

[hoop]

Also, I've found that lately there is an error message generated with the current version of Eclipse (software used by some duplication houses) that only exists with CD-TEXT masters. I provided a CD-Text and regular masters to the label, and the label chose the non-CD text based on advice from the duplication house.

The error involves a 'language code' which isn't settable using the software I use (PMCD). So, for now, I'm not using CD-Text until I hear that issue is resolved.

- kent

[Lagerfeldt]

CD Players reading the CD-Text seem to cue the cd slower when CD-Text is used.

[Left/Right]

Originally Posted by hoop

Also, I've found that lately there is an error message generated with the current version of Eclipse (software used by some duplication houses) that only exists with CD-TEXT masters. I provided a CD-Text and regular masters to the label, and the label chose the non-CD text based on advice from the duplication house.

The error involves a 'language code' which isn't settable using the software I use (PMCD). So, for now, I'm not using CD-Text until I hear that issue is resolved.

- kent

That eclipse error is passable however with client sign off (it was at my replication plant)...the cd will still play, the error only indicates the cd text may not show up properly on all cd players (most probably will be fine). All the cd text errors were a major pain...very common error but usually solved by burning with Nero.

[IIIrd]

i'm dyslexic so cd text is a no no for me....its safer that way

[lowland]

Another vote for proof-reading the text - recently I've been generating a scratch PQ sheet and getting that to the client with the ref. and a request to check the text.

[Andrew_Chart]

Thanks for the answers guys!

[+6/185]

Many clients mix up CD-Text with CDDB. They expect to see there titles and other data show up on their computers when they play their reference CDs or master. There are so few CD players that use CD-Text at this point I urge my clients not to bother. What they really want is the CDDB active and that can't be done until the data is uploaded to Gracenote. I leave that up to them or their record label.

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by +6/185

Many clients mix up CD-Text with CDDB. They expect to see there titles and other data show up on their computers when they play their reference CDs or master. There are so few CD players that use CD-Text at this point I urge my clients not to bother.

I'd say nearly every new car based system I've seen supports CD Text - not to mention a good deal of portables and higher end players. Guess in recessionary times people are buying a lot less new cars - but still I think there are enough CD Text compatible players out there already that it's worth it to me and most of my clients to take the 5 minutes to add it in.

I do find for every new client I have to explain the difference between CD Text and CDDB though. I have a couple form letters I just copy and paste into emails getting them the info on this.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Waltz Mastering]

^^^^^^^
Never really had any problems with Cd text.

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by Left/Right

That eclipse error is passable however with client sign off (it was at my replication plant)

One plant delayed processing because of that Eclipse error, telling my client that "there is an error in the image delivered". Very, very annoying.

Of course the "error" can extremely easily be "fixed" (using Eclipse's own CD-text editor), but whether that option is explored at all, or whether the project is instead needlessly put on hold, will depend on the plant and the engineer present that day.

...the cd will still play, the error only indicates the cd text may not show up properly on all cd players (most probably will be fine).

Indeed they will be fine. Hardly any of the common DDP authoring applications, to my knowledge, set the CD-Text language flag before Eclipse started showing it as an error - i.e. zillions of CDs in all kinds of languages have been produced and displayed just fine over the years. I assume that no CD players actually need the language flag to be set - if any did, they wouldn't have been able to play/display a great number of current CDs. Why Eclipse changed preferences to identify the absence of that flag as an error is beyond me.

[Andy Krehm]

I just got reminded of another potential problem, though easily fixed.

When working unattended, I always ask for track lists to be emailed. For whatever reason, when cutting and pasting from some docs, errors are introduced. Today it was apostrophes and a question mark.

Of course they can be fixed by retyping the characters in the CD writing program but you have to check the CD-TEXT after writing the master in a software subcode reader to see what the results are!

[Left/Right]

Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering

One plant delayed processing because of that Eclipse error, telling my client that "there is an error in the image delivered". Very, very annoying.

Of course the "error" can extremely easily be "fixed" (using Eclipse's own CD-text editor), but whether that option is explored at all, or whether the project is instead needlessly put on hold, will depend on the plant and the engineer present that day.



Indeed they will be fine. Hardly any of the common DDP authoring applications, to my knowledge, set the CD-Text language flag before Eclipse started showing it as an error - i.e. zillions of CDs in all kinds of languages have been produced and displayed just fine over the years. I assume that no CD players actually need the language flag to be set - if any did, they wouldn't have been able to play/display a great number of current CDs. Why Eclipse changed preferences to identify the absence of that flag as an error is beyond me.

I was not aware you could change the cd text within eclipse...during image copy? may have been something that could be done in mastering, but never came up in my testing dept. We would sometimes reauthor ourselves with client permission if it failed more than twice and they didn't want to proceed "as is" with a waiver. (always with reference copy approval)

I agree, eclipse has gotten more and more sensitive with each new version and often would depend on the drives testing also...some drives would have errors that others would pass fine. Not to mention eclipse's explanation of errors were often vague and unhelpful. We often had to set certain errors to warning or ignore (including many of the cd text errors) after testing them and realizing that there was no harm done with a majority of the new errors.

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by Left/Right

I was not aware you could change the cd text within eclipse...during image copy?

I'm not familiar with Eclipse myself, but both a Tech at Eclipse and a plant engineer were saying that the language flag can be set with Eclipse's CD-Text editor. No idea if this can be done on/after import or if the image needs to be re-authored before.

[dubmafia]

By the way, is it possible that itunes does not read CD-Text at all??

just wondering...

[Rednose]

Speaking of CD-Text, I have a few clients that I'm "Mastering" their cd and they want CD-Text on it.
I'm using Wavlab and all seems good.
When I give them the CD, the text doesnt show up.

Could someone please explain what needs to be done so they can see the Text? From what I understand Windows Media Player doesn't have CD-Text?
Do they need to register the cd first?
I'm very confused, thanks!
Matt

[Waltz Mastering]

Question.

Originally Posted by Rednose

Speaking of CD-Text, I
When I give them the CD, the text doesnt show up.
Could someone please explain what needs to be done so they can see the Text? From what I understand Windows Media Player doesn't have CD-Text?
Do they need to register the cd first?
I'm very confused, thanks!
Matt

Answer.

Originally Posted by +6/185

Many clients mix up CD-Text with CDDB. They expect to see there titles and other data show up on their computers when they play their reference CDs or master. What they really want is the CDDB active and that can't be done until the data is uploaded to Gracenote.

The client needs to upload text info to gracenote through iTunes
This is different than cd text.

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by Rednose

Speaking of CD-Text, I have a few clients that I'm "Mastering" their cd and they want CD-Text on it.
I'm using Wavlab and all seems good.
When I give them the CD, the text doesnt show up.

First - make sure you're burner is capable of burning CD Text. Next - verify that it is getting written to the master disc with software such as EAC or Plextools Pro. Finally - CD Text displays only in CD Text compatible CD players - NOT in a computers media player software!!

Could someone please explain what needs to be done so they can see the Text?

If the client is indeed wanting to have the text display in their computer's media player they need to submit the info to the Gracenote CDDB - info on how to do this with iTunes software is at How to Submit Missing CD Information via iTunes | eHow.com

There are also a few other databases that other apps besides iTunes use. These include Musicbrainz - Welcome to MusicBrainz! - MusicBrainz and freedb - freedb.org > Home

From what I understand Windows Media Player doesn't have CD-Text?

Windows Media Player uses AMG Lasso for it's online database. Info on how to submit a release to the All Media Guide for this is at allmusic

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[GeorgeZ]

Originally Posted by Rednose

...
From what I understand Windows Media Player doesn't have CD-Text?
Matt

Plug-in to Windows Media Player for CD-Text support:
BM-productions WMPCDText

And the stupid Microsoft company is not able to include it into Windows Update or they don't want to play license fees?

Several free software players:

Free "HACP CD-Text player for Windows" by Hans Nelisse:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hneel/software/hacp.zip

Free "Digital CD Player for Windows" by Moroboshi LUM:
http://elfin.sakuratan.com/fsw/dcdp_r107.zip
(linked from this page: http://elfin.sakuratan.com/index_e.html)
or from FTP:
http://ftp.kumamoto-u.ac.jp/pub/wind.../dcdp_r107.zip

[Rednose]

You guys RAWK!
I've searched the net for days and you've answered my questions in 15 minutes.
THANKS!