Butch Vig on bus compression & EQ

[24-96 Mastering]

Butch Vig on bus compression & EQ in thread called "How to mix for mastering":

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4298787-post4.html

Refreshing

[doug hazelrigg]

He states in another thread however that Chris Lord Alge used a compressor on the mix bus when mixing Green day's new album

A matter of taste

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by doug hazelrigg

He states in another thread however that Chris Lord Alge used a compressor on the mix bus when mixing Green day's new album

A matter of taste

As does Andy Wallace, whom I admire for many great mixes. It's not that I dislike mix bus compression (au contraire, actually), I just find it refreshing to hear that some great producers / mixers make great mixes without it; especially since so often these days inexperienced engineers slam badly set compressors (even multiband compressors) on their mix bus just because they read that "the pros do it"... ...Sorry for that mini-rant

[Peakly]

I probably wouldn't have an eq on my bus either if I was sitting at that board in that room with that gear.

He also said this: "I do use a lot of compression on individual tracks, and use a stereo comp on the drum buss."

So he is compressing a lot, just not on the stereo bus. Eq on the 2 bus, eq on the tracks, comps on the bus, comps on the tracks - rules were made to be broken. However you can get there, that's the way you need to go.

Mychal

[doug hazelrigg]

Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering

I just find it refreshing to hear that some great producers / mixers make great mixes without it

+1

Especially refreshing given the type of music that Butch excells at

[Bob Olhsson]

There are two distinct schools of thought on bus compression. I think of mixing into a compressor as the SSL/New York school and without as the more traditional Midwest or west coast school.

Mixing into a compressor speeds up mixing and working fast can definitely improve one's decisions. The downside is that it can hype the underlying musical balance into sounding OK only on the speakers you were listening to while mixing.

The main thing is keeping your attention on the musical goal which is people having an enjoyable experience with the recording in any listening environment.

[The MPCist]

I agree, the mixing into a comp seems to be an SSL/NY thing...

As long as you mix into the compressor with it barely moving (less than 1 db, let's say), you can get the flavor of the mix going on without being smashed too much for mastering......

[Bob Olhsson]

Many analog compressors are doing quite a bit before the meters ever start moving.

[okydoky]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

I agree, the mixing into a comp seems to be an SSL/NY thing...

hi,

do you think that might be because ssls suuuuuuuck, and the compressor stops it from being like daggers are being shoved into your ears while you mix on a ssl?

but i guess it could be for a different reason.


right.

[doug hazelrigg]

Originally Posted by oky****

but i guess it could be for a different reason.

Like the fact that the 4000 bus compressor works like a charm (on the right material, of course)

[Jesse Graffam]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Many analog compressors are doing quite a bit before the meters ever start moving.

+1... but trying to get people to understand this is erm... well... not much happens before the meters ever start moving, if you get my drift. lol

[Darius van H]

I've received many-a-mix that was totally over compressed, even though there was nothing on the 2-bus.

[okydoky]

Originally Posted by doug hazelrigg

Like the fact that the 4000 bus compressor works like a charm (on the right material, of course)

hi,

yeah, true enough. i've used that compressor on a mix. the snare thing and all that.



right.

[faun2500]

I Personally dont have anything on the mix bus. But I do alot of compression and eq on each channel and some groups and with electronic dance music the arrangement is pretty consistent volume wise.

I try to mix as close to the sound I want so I don't need to eq and compress the mix apart from some sweetening when mastering.

[Ecktronic]

Originally Posted by Peakly

I probably wouldn't have an eq on my bus either if I was sitting at that board in that room with that gear.
Mychal

I agree,
No point in using EQ on the output, the EQ (in my opinion) should me applied on the separate tracks.
I tend to use a compressor on my stereo output (in moderation), which can really bring a Mix more together.
I usually use Waves SL4000

Eck (G)

[Peakly]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Many analog compressors are doing quite a bit before the meters ever start moving.

Ain't that the truth. Like changing the tone, width, depth, etc.

Mychal

[Nash_Dred]

I like a touch of compression on the mix bus during mixing. Sonalksis SV-315 if it's a plug, Manley Variable-Mu as far as a hardware piece goes. There's a good example of a comp making a noticeable difference before the meters move.

If you need eq on the mix buss there's something wrong with the spectral content of your mix. Walk around your control room when mixing and place more focus on the frequencies present in each track, and how they work together. I do like to run my mix back through my Aurora GTQ-2 for a little punch and air.

[Bob Olhsson]

There's really nothing sacred about aggressive mix buss processing.

Starting out with overall eq. on the mix buss and then tweaking the channel eqs can sound a lot better and more "glued" than just using the channel eqs., especially when mixing on a console.

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by oky****

hi,

do you think that might be because ssls suuuuuuuck, and the compressor stops it from being like daggers are being shoved into your ears while you mix on a ssl?

but i guess it could be for a different reason.


right.

Nope. SSL's don't suck at all in my opinion -- I like SSL mixes actually. And I don't use more than 1 db of compression on my 2buss--I use the transformers more actually.

[Andreas G]

Lately I often use a SSL-bus compressor (Hardware) on the stereo bus but I don't mix into it anymore. I try to get the best possible balance with the least possible individual compressing. At the end I slap the SSL on the 2 buss just for glue. Only a view dB GR does the trick. I also use a pultec style eq after the SSL. I find it is a very different thing to eq a whole mix in the sense of enhancement than what you can do on individually tracks. I also agree that 2 bus eqing can glue things nicely. This way I get a very open and punchy sounding mix and it is amazing how loud it can get in mastering without distroying the mix.

[Led]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

There's really nothing sacred about aggressive mix buss processing.

Starting out with overall eq. on the mix buss and then tweaking the channel eqs can sound a lot better and more "glued" than just using the channel eqs., especially when mixing on a console.

Amen, a little shaping of the big picture is very different to track eq, and something you can't achieve with track eq. Different eqs impart a different overall tone to a mix, even some with the eq disengaged..a certain 'color' or tone to a mix is something I feel I should be getting before it leaves my room rather than leaving it up to the mastering engineer.

[mischa janisch]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

I've received many-a-mix that was totally over compressed, even though there was nothing on the 2-bus.

For me this is the REAL problem - using L2's and Inflators on single Tracks and Groups (Drums, Guitars,...) especially when staying in the box, to 'avoid' overs - because they can't move Faders down from 0db, since they've read on gearslutz that this will degrade the sound.
OF COURSE, these guys often don't use any compression on the 2-bus, since they want to leave some room for the mastering engineer. Most of these mixes come in pinned to -5dbfs - 8dbfs (RMS) - or lower if the peak is not -0,1dbfs: Some come in Peak -3dbfs and RMS -9dbfs (the ones with loads of room for mastering...)