Abbey Road mastering -- any good, or just hype?

[author]

I'm planning to have an album mastered at Abbey Road. But then I saw this:

Originally Posted by jjamesbomb

- I did a tryout a while ago with them on the same offer and I couldn't believe how much it sucked...it completely missed the point and sounded sloppy compared to my own software master...

...and this:

Originally Posted by TC5

I had two tracks mastered under the special offer. I was mostly interested in knowing how their mastering would compare to my home made ITB ones. While their results were good, I feel I can achieve without problem equal or better results ITB with plugins (UAD, Abbey Road, Flux).

...both written the same day in this thread:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...ml#post4278345

So, what is the consensus, if any?

[preben]

The stuff I've had done by Nick Webb there I have been extremely satisfied with.

[okydoky]

Originally Posted by author

I'm planning to have an album mastered at Abbey Road. But then I saw this:


...and this:



...both written the same day in this thread:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...ml#post4278345

So, what is the consensus, if any?

hi,

well, obviously the second guy you quoted actually has abbey road as a plugin. so why wouldn't he get the better results? he has their whole studio miniaturized into his bedroom, and he can cut out the middleman and just groove with his own bad self.

however, if you don't currently have your own miniaturized abbey road, and are unwilling to take steps to obtain it, then maybe they will hook you up if you send them your tracks.

you're welcome.


right.

[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by oky****

hi,

well, obviously the second guy you quoted actually has abbey road as a plugin. so why wouldn't he get the better results? he has their whole studio miniaturized into his bedroom, and he can cut out the middleman and just groove with his own bad self.

however, if you don't currently have your own miniaturized abbey road, and are unwilling to take steps to obtain it, then maybe they will hook you up if you send them your tracks.

you're welcome.


right.

you can have a plugin abbey road, but you wont have the engineer.
if you read the thread you'll see all bar two posts are negative about the online results....neither describe what was wrong with the result, only that they thought they could do better with their digital representations of the tg desk., and that , as one so quaintly put "they suck" ....i doubt either gave prescise instructions for the engineer/s

[okydoky]

Originally Posted by IIIrd

you can have a plugin abbey road, but you wont have the engineer.
if you read the thread you'll see all bar two posts are negative about the online results....neither describe what was wrong with the result, only that they thought they could do better with their digital representations of the tg desk., and that , as one so quaintly put "they suck" ....i doubt either gave prescise instructions for the engineer/s

hi,

maybe they have a version with a miniaturized engineer or something. ?

a lot of people seem to be miniaturizing stuff lately.



right.

[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by oky****

hi,

maybe they have a version with a miniaturized engineer or something. ?

a lot of people seem to be miniaturizing stuff lately.



right.

i have, he's got eagle eyes, bat ears...he doenst eat much either

[author]

Originally Posted by oky****

hi,

well, obviously the second guy you quoted actually has abbey road as a plugin. so why wouldn't he get the better results? he has their whole studio miniaturized into his bedroom, and he can cut out the middleman and just groove with his own bad self.

So seriously, you think Abbey Road is great...

[author]

Originally Posted by IIIrd

i doubt either gave prescise instructions for the engineer/s

That is of course possible.

It's just... you know when you see 2 posts like that in one day...

[okydoky]

Originally Posted by author

So seriously, you think Abbey Road is great...

hi,

well, who knows? i guess they have the stuff there to do it for you if they like the project. a lot depends on who does it, what you give them to work with, and if they are into it. they probably see quite a bit of work there.

you know, there are some guys posting on this board that seem like they are good and experienced people. maybe one of them would help you out if you don't like what you've heard.

if you have it done at an established place you should not get something back that's way off, unless there are issues with the sides themselves.

party on. i hope it turns out good.


right.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

I see a lot of posts on this web board saying that "I took my stuff to <insert name of famous mastering studio or engineer> and they did a crappy job on it so I took it home and was able to make it much better with a couple of plug ins" As with all subjective statements what to some people sounds GREAT may sound like dog s**t to someone else. Now if they would post what the mastering engineer did and what they did so all could hear it then maybe I would believe them but......they are usually not forthcoming with the original track, the one the "famous studio" did and their own. I tend to take all these posts with a large amount of skepticism.

Most mastering engineers today want to do a exceptional job on everything that they do. They want the client to be satisfied and want them to tell their friends and they want them to come back for more mastering. If the communications has been good between the artist and the engineer, if the artist has been truthful in telling the mastering engineer what he or she wants from the mastering and if the incoming material is at all good then the outcome of the mastering should be exactly what the artists wanted.

I use to teach a class in photography back in the days of film. The hardest part of the class was to get people to be able to see with their minds eye what the photograph would look like after they took it. They would come into class with something that resembled an out of focus shot of someones arm pit and tell me what it was suppose to be but they could not take the picture to make me see what they saw. The difference between a professional photographer and a newbie is the ability to tell a story with a photograph and to KNOW before the shutter is snapped what the photograph will look like.

The analogy is the same for someone who takes their material to a mastering engineer and cannot properly describe what it is that they are looking for. I did a heavy metal band and asked them to bring in something that represented what they were looking for and they brought in a James Taylor album. I was a bit taken a back but then when they told me what they wanted (loud but clean as a James Taylor recording) it made sense. I also get clients who bring in Nickleback but their stuff sounds more like Soundgarden and they have a problem describing what it is that they really want. So we try and couple of things and if I sense they are not sure what it is that they want then I play them some other tunes from other bands until we get in the ball park. Then we have to narrow down what it is that the want. To use the example of Nickleback that is mostly a strait ahead recording of a rock and roll band but if the clients music is all synths with lots of effects pasted all over it then the waters get cloudy very quickly.

Best advice. Find a mastering engineer that you like to work with and who has some real credits to his or her name. Give them as much information as you can about your wants and needs and let them do their "thing". Listen to what they have done, make some suggestions and be happy with the results since they will be exactly what you want them to be.

Best of luck and don't go just for a "name" but go for someone that has mastered what you like and who you respect. FWIW and YMMV

[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by author

That is of course possible.

It's just... you know when you see 2 posts like that in one day...

go to the steve hoffman site and you'll posts like that every min...not aimed at abbey road mind, aimed at everyone....

the online mastering thing hasnt really been up that long. two people, who wernt satisfied,...i'd wager they're a small percentage.
i agree with thomas above, find a guy you get on with, credits arnt necessarily a must. if you get on, and you get what you want , thats good enough. the main thing is communication...mastering is a team sport, you the client, and the engineer. you both work together. it's not zer science of building zer rocket

abbey roads T&C say you can have the track/tracks redone once for free if you're not happy.
did the two guys do this?....who knows

[author]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

Best advice. Find a mastering engineer that you like to work with and who has some real credits to his or her name. Give them as much information as you can about your wants and needs and let them do their "thing". Listen to what they have done, make some suggestions and be happy with the results since they will be exactly what you want them to be.

Best of luck and don't go just for a "name" but go for someone that has mastered what you like and who you respect. FWIW and YMMV

Thank you for your info and advice, much appreciated!

[author]

Originally Posted by IIIrd

abbey roads T&C say you can have the track/tracks redone once for free if you're not happy.
did the two guys do this?....who knows

I didn't know that. Very good point!

[author]

Originally Posted by oky****

party on. i hope it turns out good.

Thank you!

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by author

That is of course possible.

It's just... you know when you see 2 posts like that in one day...

I think a ME has to have a clear idea what you are looking for, which is really best accomplished by at least SPEAKING to him if you can't be there. They couldn't have done that using the online method.

Also, more power to you if you have an excellent monitoring and control room environment, which I don't, and I'd bet many are right up there with me. I wouldn't begin to make those final decisions on the final stage of a production without knowing whatever adjustments that were being made were being made under ideal listening conditions acoustically, which AR and all the other pro houses have. Maybe under ideal listening conditions they would hear more of a difference?

TH

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by author

I'm planning to have an album mastered at Abbey Road. But then I saw this:


...and this:



...both written the same day in this thread:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...ml#post4278345

So, what is the consensus, if any?

Forget about it!
I know many who have had stuff cut there and none have been happy!

Go and see Ian Cooper at Metropolis if you want a killer master done in London UK.
He is one of the best this side of the pond!
Or you could get me to do it?
(Doh....!I'm probably not allowed to say that on this forum)

[doorknocker]

A few thoughts:

- My experiences with unattended mastering sessions have been very hit + miss, sometimes great (Jim DeMain/Yes Master in Nashville), sometimes not-so-great or plain horrible (I won't mention any names). It doesn't even have to be lack of commitement on the MEs part, it just might be different viewpoints.

- I can only second what somebody else here said in a related thread: Don't choose a Mastering STUDIO, choose a mastering ENGINEER (as in homo sapiens).

- Part of the thrill (or shock) of mastering is hearing your work in an ideal room on great speakers, another strong reason to be there in person!

[Empty Planet]

Originally Posted by oky****

...he has their whole studio miniaturized into his bedroom, and he can cut out the middleman and just groove with his own bad self....

Lol.

[Ben F]

I have used Abbey Road to cut vinyl and they have always been first class.

As others said, choose an ME and communicate what you are after. Many people expect something different but didn't explain what they were expecting- happens all the time.

Also, many peoples ideas of 'better' when it comes to their own masters can be questionable. Most of the time it's just louder. That is the preference over sound quality.

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

- Part of the thrill (or shock) of mastering is hearing your work in an ideal room on great speakers, another strong reason to be there in person!

[24-96 Mastering]

I heard a master of theirs a couple of months ago (don't know which engineer, unfortunately) where I also heard the mix. While being a bit passive for my taste (they didn't attend to some issues that I would have chosen to attend to), I very much liked something about the tone of that master. It had something nice going on in the mids. It sounded classy in an unpretencious way... if that makes any sense. Wonder if that was the sound of the TG console Could've been the tape machine or something else entirely though.

[jeffatbkk]

I took the plunge on their offer 50% off deal.

Geoff Pesche was my ME there and I have to say, I was very pleased.

It has that warm TG Analogue Desk sound. It's centered, EQ-wise balanced and sounds very pleasing to listen too. Punchy, but not squashed and kept the dynamics but is still loud.

I've tried mastering my own stuff for all the usual reasons-saves money, fun to do/try, etc. I have all the AR TDM plugs as well as alot of OB gear.

However, I learned I had a fool for a client.

Whether I use AR again or not, we'll see- I was pleased. What I did learn, was from now on, to use an ME who only does mastering, for my stuff.

Happy Camper.

[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

Forget about it!
I know many who have had stuff cut there and none have been happy!

Go and see Ian Cooper at Metropolis if you want a killer master done in London UK.
He is one of the best this side of the pond!
Or you could get me to do it?
(Doh....!I'm probably not allowed to say that on this forum)

you can say that about any studio really...some people some of the time and all that.....

[TC5]

Originally Posted by IIIrd

as one so quaintly put "they suck" ....i doubt either gave prescise instructions for the engineer/s

I hope it is clear I was being a little facetious with my list. I don't think that they suck!

Here is the full post from the other thread:

---
I had two tracks mastered under the special offer. I was mostly interested in knowing how their mastering would compare to my home made ITB ones. While their results were good, I feel I can achieve without problem equal or better results ITB with plugins (UAD, Abbey Road, Flux). Now based on that I could conclude that either:

1- They suck.
2- I'm much better an engineer than I thought.
3- I'm delusional.
4- Being that I know exactly what I'm looking for I will inevitably go for the sound I have in mind. They will go for what THEY think is right.
5- Unattended sessions are a waste of time and I could only get the mastering result I want if I attend.
6- My idea of what mastering engineers do is wrong. They will not enhance, fix or sweeten my mix. They will only take what is there and more or less adjust levels slightly and do minor EQing. No more.

-----

As you can see I didn't leave out the option that I may be delusional...

Read on in the other thread:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...ml#post4287058

[Adam Dempsey]

Have had only good results with them cutting lacquers for us, here.

6- My idea of what mastering engineers do is wrong. They will not enhance, fix or sweeten my mix. They will only take what is there and more or less adjust levels slightly and do minor EQing. No more.

For the latter part, as required – definitely.
How specific were your instructions/goals to them? "Fix" your mix, how? Again, it's all about communication and understanding.

[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by TC5

I hope it is clear I was being a little facetious with my list. I don't think that they suck!

Here is the full post from the other thread:

---
I had two tracks mastered under the special offer. I was mostly interested in knowing how their mastering would compare to my home made ITB ones. While their results were good, I feel I can achieve without problem equal or better results ITB with plugins (UAD, Abbey Road, Flux). Now based on that I could conclude that either:

1- They suck.
2- I'm much better an engineer than I thought.
3- I'm delusional.
4- Being that I know exactly what I'm looking for I will inevitably go for the sound I have in mind. They will go for what THEY think is right.
5- Unattended sessions are a waste of time and I could only get the mastering result I want if I attend.
6- My idea of what mastering engineers do is wrong. They will not enhance, fix or sweeten my mix. They will only take what is there and more or less adjust levels slightly and do minor EQing. No more.

-----

As you can see I didn't leave out the option that I may be delusional...

Read on in the other thread:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...ml#post4287058

accepted, i read the tone of the post as negative.

so ITB in what way though could you have achieved better? what details/instructions did you give the studio, and did you have them redone?

[TC5]

Originally Posted by IIIrd

so ITB in what way though could you have achieved better? what details/instructions did you give the studio, and did you have them redone?

When I said "better", I think maybe I should have said "more what I was after". That would be more accurate. I think sometimes we forget how utterly subjective all this stuff is. I certainly have no complaint about the audio quality of their master. The engineer worked with a light touch and the result was beautiful and refined. One of the tracks I felt was a bit too soft so I asked for a revision to make it hotter. They sent me a revision that was 1db hotter with a note that any louder would be detrimental. Fair enough. It is dead easy to make it hotter (ITB or otherwise) but they judged this level correct.

For instructions I sent them a commercial track to use as reference for loudness and EQ balance I was looking to achieve. I think that's as clear as it gets in term of giving someone an idea of what I'm after.

I love Abbey Road, (that's why I bought their plugins!), though I probably should have left the word "plugin" out of my original post as that was besides the point. My main interest with online mastering was to compare it with "self mastering". ITB or otherwise.

[TC5]

Originally Posted by Adam Dempsey

Have had only good results with them cutting lacquers for us, here.


For the latter part, as required – definitely.
How specific were your instructions/goals to them? "Fix" your mix, how? Again, it's all about communication and understanding.

The mix didn't need surgical fixes but that statement was about mastering in general and not specific to Abbey Road. I used to have that perception that mastering was the place for last chance fixes etc. But I think that's not really what mastering is about and it shouldn't be expected. Maybe I'm wrong...

[IIIrd]

Originally Posted by TC5

When I said "better", I think maybe I should have said "more what I was after". That would be more accurate. I think sometimes we forget how utterly subjective all this stuff is. I certainly have no complaint about the audio quality of their master. The engineer worked with a light touch and the result was beautiful and refined. One of the tracks I felt was a bit too soft so I asked for a revision to make it hotter. They sent me a revision that was 1db hotter with a note that any louder would be detrimental. Fair enough. It is dead easy to make it hotter (ITB or otherwise) but they judged this level correct.

For instructions I sent them a commercial track to use as reference for loudness and EQ balance I was looking to achieve. I think that's as clear as it gets in term of giving someone an idea of what I'm after.

I love Abbey Road, (that's why I bought their plugins!), though I probably should have left the word "plugin" out of my original post as that was besides the point. My main interest with online mastering was to compare it with "self mastering".

fair comment,
online stuff is a good thing, but i think there's no substitue for attending the session or unattended with human to human communication.

as for hotness....you're right, making it louder is easy...but not necessarily right.

[Table Of Tone]

A studio of that prestige and history should be yielding results that are nothing short of excellent, but I have had some very embarrassing experiences in that studio with certain recording engineers!
"Your bass amp is humming"
Yep, try it now!
The guy had hooked up the DI with a speaker cable!
Get the picture?