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Who is Mastering with Barefoot MM27's?
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staudio
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21st May 2009
Old 21st May 2009
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Who is Mastering with Barefoot MM27's?

Who is Mastering with Barefoot MM27's?

What is your impression of these speakers in a mastering environment when considering the more critical demands of low distortion, linearity, and bandwidth?

Do you augment them with subwoofers? Does the bass response go low enough for you?

What is the size of your room and how far away from the listening position are the speakers?

If you have a dedicated mastering studio, that uses MM27's in NYC, I would be interested in booking an hour for a demo. Please post a link or PM me with your contact information.

Thank you,

Alex
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21st May 2009
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21st May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleatoric View Post
Vintage King is doing a speaker shootout with barefoots in june.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...s-angeles.html
I am aware of the VK shootout, and of course I will attend if possible, but thirty engineers in a room competing for the sweet spot does not exactly make for a real demo. That is why I would also like to arrange with someone local to really hear them with material I know, and in a controlled environment.

Thanks for the heads up though.
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22nd May 2009
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By the lack of response I am inferring that perhaps very few mastering engineers are using the MM27's as their monitors.
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22nd May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staudio View Post
I am aware of the VK shootout, and of course I will attend if possible, but thirty engineers in a room competing for the sweet spot does not exactly make for a real demo.
Very true!
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22nd May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staudio View Post
By the lack of response I am inferring that perhaps very few mastering engineers are using the MM27's as their monitors.
Relatively speaking, few people are using the MM27 for anything. We are a small company after all. We don't always know which customers are doing what. But here are at least a few who I think (not 100% sure) are using the MM27 for mastering.

Hans-Philipp Graf Mixing & Mastering Engineer / Information
The Chocolate Factory - Services
SpectraSound LLC - Mastering
Prairie Sun Recording Studio
Infrasonic Sound
Contact TekTonic Studio
Capricorn Studios, San Diego recording studio
Gardentone » Services
BlastingRoomStudios.com
Welcome to Rust Belt Studios
Aztec Productions A Full Production Recording, Mixing & Mastering Studio for Bands, TV, Films, etc.

And John Greenham (John Greenham » About) is using our soon to be released mastering stack which is based on the MM27.

Hope this helps!
Thomas
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staudio
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23rd May 2009
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Thomas,

Thank you very much for the information, I am curious to learn more about the mastering speakers that you are working on, as well as the MM 12's when they both are released.
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24th May 2009
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I do!

Got mine about 3 weeks ago. I REALLY like them, very non-flattering and they do translate pretty well... hate to say it, but BELIEVE the hype.

My room is around 4m wide x 5m.

I don't seem to get as much as I would like to, but I think it has more to do with room acoustics. Hasn't been a problem though.

I think they go low enough, for sure.

I'm about 1.5m away from my speakers.

I have a dedicated mastering room, however is not in NYC :-)
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24th May 2009
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I purchased a pair of the MM27 a month ago and use them strictly for mastering. I have mastered 100+ albums on my old setup and can honestly say the MM27 have taken my work to the next level. And i've only just begun. I feel like I have a whole new analog / digital rig. I enable less in the chain yet get better results. The monitors I had before were great and served me well: Earthworks Sigma 6.2, Bryston 4bst, and a Velodyne DD10 sub. (which i am selling as a package for $3300 - Act fast! The Barefoots are an entirely different league. (> twice the price) They are true full range speakers with seemingly endless amount of amplification and clarity. Linear response from top to bottom.

I was saving my money for a pair of ATC SCM50ASL which run for approx. $9.2k. I've never had the luxury to hear them, but the consensus is that they require a sub for a full range experience. I was also considering PMC ib2s (about the same price as ATC) but they require a mid-field position and I monitor somewhere between mid and near. The MM27 are near field and have stereo subs that are matched to the main drivers both acoustically and electronically. The sound also comes from the same location in the room. And unlike a free standing subwoofer, there are no crossover points and you don't have to mess with moving the sub(s) around the room until the response is right.

The most striking difference when I am working with the mm27's is the ability to hear subtle changes. Settings that did very little before suddenly shift around with ease. I am also struck by how gorgeous and huge they sound when things are purring; or how naked they sound when you first begin. They have also taught me the importance of mastering in a full-range, linear environment with lots amplification and detail.

I hope you get a chance to hear them. The Vintage king shootout seems like a great opportunity. Even if it requires a bit of a wait.

Good luck,

Timothy Stollenwerk

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staudio
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24th May 2009
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Thanks for the info, I'm glad to hear you like them and that they are working out for you.
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24th May 2009
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Are people using these as nearfields or more like midfields for mastering?
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25th May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morebutter View Post
Are people using these as nearfields or more like midfields for mastering?
Mid field here.
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26th May 2009
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Started out midfield.
The mm27 drivers congeal nicely at a fairly close distance so I've been playing with moving closer. And liking it a lot.

Instead of over thinking it I'm just going with sitting in the sweet spot and my ears agree with the measurements.
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29th May 2009
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NYC Speaker shootout June 10, 2009

The speaker shootout will be held in NYC on Wednesday June 10 at Platinum Sound Studios, (Wyclef's place), 320 W. 46th Street. In response to some comments on this site, private demos are usually possible in the NYC area. And based on past experience with these events, and the size of the control room, there will not be large crowds of engineers at one time trying to listen. Bring material if you wish. This event is part of Vintage King's ongoing goal to continue to make professional tools available to hear that otherwise would be difficult to evaluate. If you would like to attend please RSVP via the Vintage King website Vintage King Audio | 248.591.9276 | The Largest Selection of New & Used Pro Audio in the World or to peterkehoe@vintageking.com
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12th June 2009
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My sweetspot (for mastering) w/the MM27's is about 8 feet back. Especially when I am focusing on stereo image stuff.
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16th June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staudio View Post
By the lack of response I am inferring that perhaps very few mastering engineers are using the MM27's as their monitors.
The MM27 was never viewed by the market as a mastering speaker until much more recently, but it would serve you well (if the room is good, of course). I used the first Barefoot product, the MM12 protos at about 8 feet away, for 4 years with great results.
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4th June 2010
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Is the low end response of the MM27s good enough to master bass heavy music such as techno and house without using the Barefoot subs which extend the range down to 22Hz?
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4th June 2010
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They spec -3dB at 33hz.

I don't think you would need a sub. Now you might want to get one at some point but -3dB at 33hz is pretty exceptional, plus you do not have to mess around with sub placement and an additional crossover.
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4th June 2010
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I would add the Barefoot subs to my MM27's in the "Mastering Stack" config that Thomas Barefoot is developing.
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4th June 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siddhu View Post
I would add the Barefoot subs to my MM27's in the "Mastering Stack" config that Thomas Barefoot is developing.
How large is your room? How well tuned is the low end? How far away are you from the speakers? How much volume do you need at the listening position?

You're probably fine with the MM27s. The extra drivers need a large and good room or you'll be fighting it.
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4th June 2010
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My room is not that big but I'm picking up an ASC Attack Wall with custom made monitor stands for my MM27s that are also bass traps down to 30Hz.

I'm also buying extra bass traps for the corners of the room. I'm travelling right now and don't have the exact specs of my room, but our studio room will change in about 10 months to a much larger room when we move.
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4th June 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siddhu View Post
Is the low end response of the MM27s good enough to master bass heavy music such as techno and house without using the Barefoot subs which extend the range down to 22Hz?
I recently spoke with someone who uses the MM27 for mastering and he mentioned that he often double-checks stuff on headphones to be sure about the very lows. But as others have said, room specifics have a big part in this. Demo in your suite if you can.
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5th June 2010
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Barefoot mastering rack ??? sounds great ! when is it projected to come out ? so that is the 27's plus subs all in one ?
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14th June 2010
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I cannot imagine needing a sub with the mm27s...the low end is massive and clear. Room treatment was needed to tame them here, and with that I hear everything happening.
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15th June 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering View Post
I recently spoke with someone who uses the MM27 for mastering and he mentioned that he often double-checks stuff on headphones to be sure about the very lows. But as others have said, room specifics have a big part in this. Demo in your suite if you can.
I'm surprised he hears the very low frequencies better in the headphones. I hear the bass better in my MM27s than I do in any of my headphones (AKG 271 and Sony 7506). I don't have any desire to get an additional sub.
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15th June 2010
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Definitely would like to know about these mastering versions !!
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15th June 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morebutter View Post
Are people using these as nearfields or more like midfields for mastering?
I'm about 4 feet back from mine.

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15th June 2010
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Quote:
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I'm about 4 feet back from mine.
Nice looking room. thumbsup
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15th June 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleatoric View Post
Nice looking room. thumbsup
Thanks! It's smaller than I'd like, but after lots of bass traps and diffusors I think I have it pretty tamed at this point.
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15th June 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleatoric View Post
They spec -3dB at 33hz. I don't think you would need a sub.
I'd love to hear how they compare to the PMC AML1 (a new AML2 is on the way which is supposed to be even better). The PMC is about a thousand more per speaker, but has size advantages. What strikes me is the AML series has a 6 or 6.5 inch woofer, so the front porting has a role. Tested, the TB2S-AII were amazing and had redefined neutral. The high end didn't scream to be reduced 2-4 db like almost every montor I hear, and lower transient impact matched or beat the better Dynaudios, (which had once set the standard for that). Matched with a sub they would be amazing. But the AML monitors seem to take it a step higher than those TB2S-AII in specs, indicating no sub required (also -3db at 33 hz). They supposedly sound better in the mids and the high end (as if that is possible) and of course are probably about half the size and weight of the Barefoot monitors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg B View Post
I'm surprised he hears the very low frequencies better in the headphones. I hear the bass better in my MM27s than in my AKG 271 and Sony 7506 headphones. I don't have any desire to get an additional sub
Those headphonse give true extension to the bass, but seem to have it roll off very low. I'd suggest the Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones. But be sure to break them in with white or better yet, pink noise at moderate volumes for 2-3 days. The bass will seem hyped if you're used to the others, plus the extended high end in the headphones you use may have made your ears accustomed to more highs, and lows being more recessed. Best closed headphones I've used. I don't mix with headphones, but they are good to check the bass. They reveal it in a different way than my customized subwoofer could even though that sub goes into the lower 20s. Only the Beyerdynamic DT 770 closed headphones have more bass, but hyped beyond useability, beyond maybe tracking.
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