Mixing EQ vs Mastering EQ

[hutzal]

Hey guys,

I have a question about trying to get my mix sounding like reference material specifically with EQing. I have done a couple experiments where I EQ the channels in my session trying to cover the whole frequency spectrum for an even mix, but this pre-mastering EQ mix obviously doesn't sound like my current reference material (Lady GaGa).

When I run my master bus through some EQ I can get the overall mix to sound like my reference material. Is this bad? Should I be trying to get my mix to sound like my reference material without the use of EQing on the master bus? I am pretty new to this mixing stuff, thanks for the patience and the newb questions. thanks guys.

-Hutz

[wado1942]

Hello. To answer your question, it depends on who you ask. I never put EQ on the mix buss. I hardly use any track EQ for that matter, yet most of my mixes are fairly even across the spectrum. But then, I take great care in recording to reduce the need for EQ later. Now other guys will say to do whatever you feel like doing to get the sound you want. I try to get the sound I want before I ever hit the record button and I think that's ideal. So EQ down the road is not to shape the sound but rather to help the sound you have sit together a little better.

[okydoky]

Originally Posted by hutzal

mix obviously doesn't sound like my current reference material (Lady GaGa).


-Hutz

hi,

she's the one who wants to take a ride on my disco stick, right? at least that's what i think she keeps saying in that song [although its hard to be sure because there is so much ECHO on the HEAVILY COMPRESSED, EQUALIZATION NIGHTMARE of a track].

so she's your reference, huh? excellent dude!

could you please tell her that i am currently having a special on all services, including disco stick rides, - $5,000.00 per day plus per diem, 3 day minimum. i can probably help her with that grand canyon echobox thing, unless she's **cked around and gotten it permanently stuck like that.


right.

[ripper]

Originally Posted by wado1942

Hello. To answer your question, it depends on who you ask. I never put EQ on the mix buss. I hardly use any track EQ for that matter, yet most of my mixes are fairly even across the spectrum. But then, I take great care in recording to reduce the need for EQ later. Now other guys will say to do whatever you feel like doing to get the sound you want. I try to get the sound I want before I ever hit the record button and I think that's ideal. So EQ down the road is not to shape the sound but rather to help the sound you have sit together a little better.

yes and i've had good results eq-ing NOTHING on an entire album when tracking and NONE of the individual tracks while mixing but using an eq on the mix buss while mixing to shape the mix and help the individual tracks sit together.

and you do need to track things well for this and of course, have a good instrumental arrangement for the song.

you wanna good mix? get a good ARRANGEMENT of the song. other wise, you'll end up w/ a jumble of elbows and arseholes... try mixing THAT, eq or not!

i always use an eq on my mix bus by the way... even if it's just my hammer adding a bit of air and sheen.

by the way, i'd recommend mixing the song at hand, not trying to get it to be a mix you're referencing.

sound does not exist in a vacumn and by that i mean it's all about THE ACTUAL TRACKS AND ARRANGEMENT in front of you, on YOUR DAW, that need to be analysised and understood. these aren't abstractions. they're tangibles, coded bits of information that all have their individual anomolies. you have to understand them seperately and how they best fit collectively.

without that understanding, you're shooting craps, not mixing.


influences are fine but in mixing, the reality of the tracks at hand rules the day (or night, considering the hours we keep!)

if you'd like to hear a song approached by eq-ing NOTHING on an entire album when tracking and NONE of the individual tracks while mixing but using an eq on the mix buss while mixing, go to my website link at my signature, go to the sights and sounds page, and listen to the track by the band SPOONFUL.

that's an unmasterd mp3 as i think all the songs on the site are.

all the songs have eq on mix bus but on SPOONFUL's album, that's the only eq used.

best of luck.

[Led]

+1 to all Ripper said. Reference for a vibe, not an exact replica. Not to mention if your reference track is in a different key to the one you are mixing they are never gonna line up anyway.
Inspiration is better than replication anyways...

[Mr Phil]

You cant EQ your face to look like your ass...

[Led]

Well... I have seen some faces...

[steveschizoid]

Dear OP,
To counterbalance all the anti-referencing advice on this thread - IMO it takes an enormous amount of experience to be able to mix effectively with no reference. The whole process is so subjective and auditory perception is so quickly adaptable, it really helps to have some sort of grounding in a reference that you know works. You do have to volume match, or apply some temporary mastering processing to your mix to provide a useful comparison, but I can't think of a better way to learn than to compare your own work with that of someone whose work you admire. Imitation is not the point, and replication is impossible.

Now, ignoring all the (somewhat less than relevant) advice to track so that you need no EQ in the mix, it would seem best to EQ only that which needs EQ, and it seems unlikely that everything in your mix needs the same EQ applied to it. (Yes, I know, very expensive mastering engineers do this everyday, but that's really a different topic - anyone of them would probably tell you to make the mix sound as good as you can and leave the mastering to them.) My advice is to figure out what improves based on your mix buss EQ, then go back and rework the EQ on the individual channels.

That being said, it all depends on the particulars of your situation. If you have just one really nice 2 channel hardware EQ and you're finding yourself (for example) boosting 7 KHz and above on the drums, vocals and guitars, then it might indeed be more effective to EQ the 2-buss. You could print the EQ to the individual channels, but that's a PITA and it's generally a bad idea to EQ a part without hearing the impact on the whole. For example, if you print the EQ on the snare, you'd have to do it while guessing what it will sound like once you've EQ'd the overheads.

Guys, don't flame me for my "less than relevant" remark - of course the better it sounds while tracking the better the final mix will be. No arguement here. But, the OP's question had to do with how best to deal with what something that has already been tracked. If EQ can make a mix sound better, it would be silly not to use it.

[space2012]

Originally Posted by hutzal

doesn't sound like my current reference material (Lady GaGa).

Secrets Of The Mix Engineers: Robert Orton

[ripper]

hi steveschizoid

in my post i said i ALWAYS use a 2 bus eq.

i was pointing out the different ways it might be used, ie, a bit more, over more various freqs to perhaps shape a track that had no other eq at anytime applied...

or using it less for shaping and more for fairydust, air, sparkle, openessness in the high end (whatever you want to call it... the hammer is great for this type of eq)

perhaps i should have made that more clear.

re: referencing- of course this can be a good thing... i deconstruct any song i hear (even when i dont want to!)

but i've had so many 2nd engs and clients listen to a mix they want their mix to sound like and not take into account what they've actually recorded...

there may be such competing freqs in their mix at the exact area that plays as the basis of the mix they want to emulate that it AINT GONNA COME CLOSE! that's why i mentioned a good arrangement is what leads the mix.

my point is that you need to analysis and emulate what went into your reference mix in preproduction!

anyways, it's all a learning curve and probably the best thing about this gig is it always will be, for all of us. can't say that about a lot of people's jobs! that learning is what keeps it interesting...

[ripper]

Originally Posted by Mr Phil

You cant EQ your face to look like your ass...

no but i've compressed my ass into a smiley face before.

see! just did it again!

[steveschizoid]

Originally Posted by ripper

no but i've compressed my ass into a smiley face before.

see! just did it again!

But, how best to process one's disco stick?

[hutzal]

Thanks for all the replies guys. Just to clarify, I am not trying to get my song to be an exact replica of my reference material. It is simply there so I can play it on my monitors, and have my ears get a sense of the type of sound I want my mix to sound like, then go back to my mix and try and accomplish that.

Without a reference (since I am beginner) it is harder for me to really know what a good mix sounds like. Thanks for that article as well! I am a producer, and too cheap to pay a mixer right now (only doing demo's and writing songs trying to get them licensed to artists).

All my music is basically like the recent pop stuff (Rihanna, Lady GaGa, etc) in which all the instruments are synths and samples. the only "real" instrument I have is electric guitar on my tracks as I write with a guitar player.

One more quick question, I am using logic Pro 8 right now and all their stock plugins for mastering etc (I am getting a ULN-8 today...man I am looking forward to those DSP plugins!). Logic has these mastering presets for the master 1-2 bus, the majority of the "broadcast/pop" presets invlove Multiband compression. For those of you that mix Pop stuff that is like the recent stuff on the radio, do you use multiband compression at all on your master bus for mastering?

Thanks guys, tons of helpfull info in here.

[It'sJoeAgain]

Originally Posted by hutzal

do you use multiband compression at all on your master bus for mastering?

Thanks guys, tons of helpfull info in here.

The large majority here feel that you do what the mix *tells you* to do. So the answer is yes, no, maybe and maybe not.....

[UnderTow]

Originally Posted by ripper

if you'd like to hear a song approached by eq-ing NOTHING on an entire album when tracking and NONE of the individual tracks while mixing but using an eq on the mix buss while mixing, go to my website link at my signature, go to the sights and sounds page, and listen to the track by the band SPOONFUL.

I tried both in Internet Explorer and Firefox. No sound or anything that looks like a player...

Alistair