Trouble at the plant with CD Text

[macrae11]

Wondering if anybody on here can help me with this issue.

I'm using PMCD 3.0 to generate DDP's that I upload to the plant. However PMCD seems to be generating an error in regards to CD Text. What's happening is that the CDTEXT.bin file is smaller than what the DDPMS file is stating it is. This is causing a failure in the testing, and the plant can't replicate. The error is not showing up in Eclipse, but in ACE 100.

So I guess I have two questions.
1) Is there a specific size that the CD Text file should be for every master, or is it different every time due to different amounts of CD Text info?

2) If it is different everytime, what's a good DDP utility I can use to open the DDPMS file to confirm that the stated file length, and the actual file length are the same? I've seen DDP Tools by Crimson Tech, but I'm not real interested in spending twice as much as I did for PMCD, just to make sure that PMCD works properly.

I don't do CD Text all that often, but when I do do it, I'd rather be able to upload a DDP, as I've gotten rather used to the convenience, and fast turnarounds of uploading as opposed to sending a physical CD.

Note: I do have a request into Sonic support, but I haven't heard back from them yet.

Thanks for any help.

[Table Of Tone]

You should get a reply from sonic pretty soon.
They are OK when it comes to getting back to you.

I know what you mean though!
PMCD still has a little way to go to properly catch up with the speed in which OSX is evolving.
The whole intel transition really threw a spanner in the works for many of the OSX software venders!

I always open and check DDP's before they go to the plant, whatever software I use to make em!
DDP/CD text/IRSC creation is twitchy, to say the least on OSX.

I think this is because most mastering software these days is windows based and there isn't really much around for mac!

[macrae11]

Thanks TOT. I also always check the DDP before it goes out as well, but I don't have the DDP import option here, so I can only check the audio, not the CD Text and all that info. That's why I'm looking for another DDP utility to check that kind of stuff. I'm actually on an old PPC G5, so I shouldn't have issues with Intel compatibilty, but maybe there are some other issues with that.

I sent another support request to Sonic yesterday. I think maybe the first one I sent wasn't formatted properly, because I got a auto respond email back from this one, which I didn't get from the first one. There's also my contact from the plant looking into their end of things.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

[Table Of Tone]

The fact that you are running a PPC G5 doesn't really make any difference because the venders are still changing their software to work better on intel macs which may affect their performance on PPC.
You may even be better off using an earlier non UB version of PMCD!
The best thing to do is to try a test session on the earlier version and see if you can get a favor at a plant and have them check it for you.

The only other thing I can suggest is to make sure that you put end marks in as well as the start marks.
If the session is made correctly, your PQ log should show all CD text, IRSC codes along with start and end times for each track.
Probably best to go to the plant with a session, just to make sure they can read everything correctly.
Once you've got a tried N' tested system working and you use the same plant whenever possible, you should not need to go along again!
This would save buying another DDP application.

[macrae11]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

The fact that you are running a PPC G5 doesn't really make any difference because the venders are still changing their software to work better on intel macs which may affect their performance on PPC.
You may even be better off using an earlier non UB version of PMCD!
The best thing to do is to try a test session on the earlier version and see if you can get a favor at a plant and have them check it for you.

I would go to an earlier version of PMCD, however this is the first version which supports CD Text in the DDP image. Hence the bug. In the mean time, I'll just use phycial CD-R's for delivery when I need CD Text. I do work with the same plant all the time, and we're actually their regional representitive, so we have a great relationship, and they are great at helping trouble shoot problems.

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

The only other thing I can suggest is to make sure that you put end marks in as well as the start marks.

I'm not sure what difference this would make? but I'll give it a try.

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

If the session is made correctly, your PQ log should show all CD text, IRSC codes along with start and end times for each track.

It does show up this way properly in the PQ log. The issue is just that the actual CDTEXT.bin file is showing as too short according to the DDPMS file, which is causing the failure.


I still haven't been able to find an answer to my first question, from the plant or anywhere. Is the CDTEXT.bin file always the same length, or does it vary from project to project?

[Table Of Tone]

That's good that you have a friendly plant to work with because that can save them going ahead and making 1000+ copies of something that is wrong!

Another approach would be to print off the PQ log and give the plant the DDP's without the CD text and have the plant attach the the text at their end.

The IRSC codes are separate to the CD text so they should still be there even if the session was created on an earlier version.

Having end marks as well as start marks will make the CD text and the IRSC codes more likely to be readable at replication plants along with domestic PC based media readers.

If you have not been using end marks, that may be the problem!

[macrae11]

Cool thanks TOT. I'll try my next master with end marks and see what happens there. I have talked to them about inputting the CD Text after the fact, and it seems that it something they can't do, for whatever reason.

[Table Of Tone]

Some plants can do it their end, some plants can't!

Sonic should be cool for CD text as they wrote most of it in the days of Sonic Solutions, obviously on older mac platforms.

Many high profile mastering houses in the USA, still use sonic solutions running on OS9.
Solid as a rock!
I may be picking up an ex townhouse G4 with a lynx AES/EBU PCI card fitted which is running exactly that.
I figure it would be nice as a spare capture puter.

[macrae11]

I just heard back from Sonic today. Apparently this issue has been addressed in the latest revision(which I thought I was on) 3.0.1. I've installed it, and will see how it goes with my next master.

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by macrae11

I just heard back from Sonic today. Apparently this issue has been addressed in the latest revision(which I thought I was on) 3.0.1. I've installed it, and will see how it goes with my next master.

I've just had the exact same problem (using cube-tech / wavelabfor ddp creation, not sonic) and was under the impression that the problem is on the Eclipse (i.e. plant software) side of things.

[macrae11]

Doesn't seem to be, at least with PMCD. The master passed Eclipse at the plant, but failed in the ACE100. I'm not even sure what the ACE100 is, just what I was told from the plant.

This is a confirmed bug from Sonic, that apparently has been addressed in the latest update.

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by macrae11

Doesn't seem to be, at least with PMCD. The master passed Eclipse at the plant, but failed in the ACE100. I'm not even sure what the ACE100 is, just what I was told from the plant.

This is a confirmed bug from Sonic, that apparently has been addressed in the latest update.

Ah ok. I was referring to the "bad language code" that results a size error for the cdtext.bin also. (DDPi into eclipse)
It sounded like the same error you got, but the error log I was sent was from Eclipse, not ACE1000 (whatever that is).

[macrae11]

Well there's another side question I guess. Anybody know anything about the ACE 100? I have the name of the company that makes it in an email at work I think. I'll try to look it up tomorrow.

[Table Of Tone]

It seems to me that the mastering /DDP software companies really need to be talking to the plant/Glass master software companies!