Api 2500 vs Vertigo VSC-2

[Cellotron]

Those two comps you listed are SO different in sound from each other that you really should demo them first yourself to decide which one you prefer. If you do a search both have been discussed a bit here previously.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[alcopop]

I agree , these really are 2 different beasts . If it was me , I would probably go for the Vertigo as it's easy to set and seems to work well on most styles of music, but then again so does the Cranesong STC -8 .
Having said that there are times when the 2500 is just the ticket . Works great on Rock and Punk to my ears .
I would also recommend looking at something tube based considering you already have the Cranesong and the C2 .
Maybe have a look at the Requisite and The Phoenix which I have and love .

[Silver Sonya]

The Vertigo's cooler looking. Go with the Vertigo.

I'm only half kidding.

Sometimes when you get into this kind of stratosphere, arbitrary, gut decisions can prove more trenchant than reasoned, measured, careful consideration.

I'm gonna own a Vertigo just 'cause it looks so fantastic.

I've got a Thermionic Culture Phoenix on its way, and don't you think for a second that my kid-at-the-base-of-the-Christmas-tree desires were more instructive to me in that purchase than any mature, adult concern. I had to have it. I mean, just look at it. It's got Chad Clark written all over it. Or is this just me that sees this?...



Being impulsive is not necessarily a bad way to live, y'know? You make mistakes sometimes, sure. But you're always having fun. And you're always learning.

- c

[OurDarkness]

I would pick up the Vertigo. In fact I am buying one soon.

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

Being impulsive is not necessarily a bad way to live, y'know? You make mistakes sometimes, sure. But you're always having fun. And you're always learning.

- c

Totally agree - EXCEPT when it comes to multi g purchases for things you need to make income off of and that you want best results per dollar. Fact is resale values are way down so if you decide it what you bought ain't what you thought it would be then your in the hole. As I'm sitting here I'm imagining about $10k that could be in my pocket now if I had more patience, done more research, held out for more demo's, etc. - as I bought audio gear that I ultimately (sometimes quickly) ended up replacing with something else that worked for me much better. Even though it took me multiple lessons I'm finally done with "impulse buys" when it comes to audio gear whose pricetag is more than $300!

As far as the Thermionic - I demoed the non-mastering version and just felt it was too colored and too tweaky for it to be used on that many tracks that came my way here. Hopefully ymmv!!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

Totally agree - EXCEPT when it comes to multi g purchases for things you need to make income off of and that you want best results per dollar. Fact is resale values are way down so if you decide it what you bought ain't what you thought it would be then your in the hole. As I'm sitting here I'm imagining about $10k that could be in my pocket now if I had more patience, done more research, held out for more demo's, etc. - as I bought audio gear that I ultimately (sometimes quickly) ended up replacing with something else that worked for me much better. Even though it took me multiple lessons I'm finally done with "impulse buys" when it comes to audio gear whose pricetag is more than $300!

As far as the Thermionic - I demoed the non-mastering version and just felt it was too colored and too tweaky for it to be used on that many tracks that came my way here. Hopefully ymmv!!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Ah, Steve, you're no fun. Harshin' my mellow, dude!



In all seriousness, you're totally right. It's good to be prudent. But... well, I'm just not. What can I say?

And it's true that boutique stuff like the Vertigo does not hold its value, generally. It will plummet "the moment you get it off the lot" as they say. I suppose if you want a good "investment," best to go with one of the ubiqutious venerated classics.

And, to be clear, I didn't buy the Phoenix for mastering. I bought it for my own band's music. Kinda don't care if it works for mastering or not.

cheers,
Chad

[dhiltonlittle]

i'd put the 2500 on the drum buss to start out with.

[alcopop]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

Totally agree - EXCEPT when it comes to multi g purchases for things you need to make income off of and that you want best results per dollar. Fact is resale values are way down so if you decide it what you bought ain't what you thought it would be then your in the hole. As I'm sitting here I'm imagining about $10k that could be in my pocket now if I had more patience, done more research, held out for more demo's, etc. - as I bought audio gear that I ultimately (sometimes quickly) ended up replacing with something else that worked for me much better. Even though it took me multiple lessons I'm finally done with "impulse buys" when it comes to audio gear whose pricetag is more than $300!

As far as the Thermionic - I demoed the non-mastering version and just felt it was too colored and too tweaky for it to be used on that many tracks that came my way here. Hopefully ymmv!!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Tweaky , yes ;( colored , yes too much color ? in my opinion No .

Different ears , different gears !

[Silvertone]

Mike Nehera is sending the Vertigo after Dave McNair gets done demoing it. I don't know anything about it other than Mike wanted me to try it. I'm looking forward to hearing it though.

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by Silvertone

Mike Nehera is sending the Vertigo after Dave McNair gets done demoing it. I don't know anything about it other than Mike wanted me to try it. I'm looking forward to hearing it though.

It is very nice. Transparent with that "snappy" VCA sound that you would expect.
Plus you have te option to dial in more colour if and when needed with the make-up gain as it uses a VCA for that purpose. Build quality is top notch.

[KyleDiSanto]

Api Has more Color, also has a "harder sound to it".

Vertigo is transparent like the API on the top end, but in a more Airy, Sheen, Vibrant (insert cool name here) type of way.

Build quality on the Vertigo is Top Notch!

[AUDIOBOMBER]

one of the first vertigos here - top quality - top sound - great for mastering - great for tracking - great in general

[Hal]

thanx for your replies
From what many of you say Vertigo seems to be more similar to STC8.

I need something that can replace my C2 and that
can be good when I need something more aggressive.

Could Vertigo can be like this?

[dhiltonlittle]

take a look at the dramastic audio obsidian.

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by Hal

thanx for your replies
From what many of you say Vertigo seems to be more similar to STC8.

I need something that can replace my C2 and that
can be good when I need something more aggressive.

Could Vertigo can be like this?

Ok, got it now. No, it is not like the STC-8. They are both on the transparent side (as opposed to colourful). It is the one of the most transparent VCA designs I have ever encountered. If you are looking into C2 territory then you could try the Vertigo as well as the Rolls which is also very nice but probably more practical in a mixing situation. The Vertigo has stepped controls (apart from make up gain and threshold, these can be ordered stepped as an option) plus two different side-chains that can be used in mono or linked. The unique thing is its make up gain. The Obsidian Dramastic I have never had the chance to try so I can't comment. probably another option to consider.

If you decide to go the other route (Cranesong STC-8-like) I suggest you also consider the Fearn VT-7 which is an outstanding compressor. If I had the space and the extra budget I'd love to add one of those ..........

[OurDarkness]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

I mean, just look at it

Yup, I know what you are talking about. IT LOOKS SEXY.

[Adam Dempsey]

The STC-8 and Vertigo (VSC-2) are both totally capable of being transparent or having some (clean) attitude, but they do sound different (even STC-8 in Hara mode vs VSC-2) and I'll usually hear in my head within seconds which will work best for the particular job. The former can grab nicely with a medium attack, or a slower, more invisible taming & gently riding a mix, even with barely any GR; the latter for some VCA "snappiness" - it can be really fast, eg gently catch the attack of acoustic guitar picking, or can do a harder squeeze (we've even matched it with the LTD-2's if you ever needed that action without the transformer tone), or auto release (fast on transients) can be great, eg on ballads and if a vocal needs to be 'wrapped up' a bit with other mix elements, as used on two tracks of an album today with the STC-8 doing an invisible, slower 'holding' of the mix.
So yes, they can complement each other well, proving the various types of 'clean' - they're both work horses.

[ISedlacek]

I had both API 2500 and Vertigo here and AB tried them ... to me, the sound difference seemed to directly relate to the price difference. Comparing to the "aristocratic" sounding Vertigo, API sounded good, but a bit more "pedestrian" ... Or Vertigo more lush, pleasant, natural, API more artificial ... These are my impressions in a nutshell

[soundgeezer]

For Mixing I would personally go with the API (love it on the drum buss).
For Mastering the Vertigo glues in a euphonic nice way rounding the highs up ... it's certainly not as versatile as the API but it does its job extremely well ...

[salomonander]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

I had both API 2500 and Vertigo here and AB tried them ... to me, the sound difference seemed to directly relate to the price difference. Comparing to the "aristocratic" sounding Vertigo, API sounded good, but a bit more "pedestrian" ... Or Vertigo more lush, pleasant, natural, API more artificial ... These are my impressions in a nutshell

i listened to the vertigo. very clean. very transparent. nothing else....

[J_Flux]

I'm currently trying to decide between these 2 units for mastering EDM. I also have the STC-8 and the Thermionic Phoenix which I both love. I'm looking for some extra mojo but perhaps the API 2500 is a bit too dirty?

Having said that the STC-8 and Phoenix can't really be considered dirty, so maybe I need the option for some API 2500 dirt?

Can anyone else share their thoughts on the difference between these units and how they might integrate into my current setup?

[Mr. Bars]

Originally Posted by Hal

I already have a Cranesong and a SmartC2 but I'd like to use the Smart on drums and substitute with an Api 2500 or a Vertigo for mastering.
Above all Rock/punk/metal stuff but not only.

Which could be the best option according to your opinion?

Too much VCA in your setup, friend.... don't you think so? For sure high-end VCA is amazing and VCA may be your way to sonic heaven or you just decline any other compressor's topologies currently?

[livingstone]

the stc8 is not a vca, it uses a PWM control circuit

[airmate]

I own both the API and the Vertigo.

That being said, the 2500 is hard-wired to my drum buss, while I swap the Pendulum OCL-2, the Rockruepel and the Vertigo for mix buss compression. Most of the time, I am using no mix buss compression at all, though.

The Vertigo sounds cleaner than the API. It can be as grabby as any VCA comp, but it always retains a certain clarity and elegance that I have never heard using a THAT IC VCA compressor (i.e. SSL, Smart, etc.).

I really like the Vertigo on Kick and Snare, sometimes on a parallel drum buss, and it also is my favourite acoustiv guitar compressor (second only to the wonderful API 525 for this application).

[gregor z]

API 2500 is great for EDM, especially in parallel and compliments STC 8 very nice....plus that it is a great compressor for single sounds in mixing stage...especially drums...

Originally Posted by J_Flux

I'm currently trying to decide between these 2 units for mastering EDM. I also have the STC-8 and the Thermionic Phoenix which I both love. I'm looking for some extra mojo but perhaps the API 2500 is a bit too dirty?

Having said that the STC-8 and Phoenix can't really be considered dirty, so maybe I need the option for some API 2500 dirt?

Can anyone else share their thoughts on the difference between these units and how they might integrate into my current setup?

[tomasrangel]

In my experience, Vertigo asks for a Bax type equalizer to help controlling the punch and lowend.
I do not have the API hardware but based in the Waves Api 2500 plugin, both 2500 and VSC-2 are good tighteners. VSC-2 more like a flush puncher, and 2500 more plain and agressive.

[shelterr]

Originally Posted by airmate

I own both the API and the Vertigo.

That being said, the 2500 is hard-wired to my drum buss, while I swap the Pendulum OCL-2, the Rockruepel and the Vertigo for mix buss compression. Most of the time, I am using no mix buss compression at all, though.

The Vertigo sounds cleaner than the API. It can be as grabby as any VCA comp, but it always retains a certain clarity and elegance that I have never heard using a THAT IC VCA compressor (i.e. SSL, Smart, etc.).

I really like the Vertigo on Kick and Snare, sometimes on a parallel drum buss, and it also is my favourite acoustiv guitar compressor (second only to the wonderful API 525 for this application).

I also own a Vertigo VSC2 and the clarity and elegance are pretty fantastic for mix buss/mastering. The Rockruepel does intrigue me though. How would you describe it for mix buss compared to the Vertigo?

[airmate]

Originally Posted by shelterr

I also own a Vertigo VSC2 and the clarity and elegance are pretty fantastic for mix buss/mastering. The Rockruepel does intrigue me though. How would you describe it for mix buss compared to the Vertigo?

The Rockruepel is more forward sounding in the (upper) mid range.

It's certainly useful for mix buss compression. But I almost always use it for a parallel buss with bass drum, snare (and sometimes toms and/or bass). My clients seem to LOVE it for that application, and so do I.

Their customer support is quite extraordinary, too. I had some issues with my unit (which turned out to be just a bad output tube). I sent the comp to them and received it back with fresh and freshly calibrated tubes within 48 hours. Then there was another problem due to extremely rough handling by the courier (not the manufacturer's fault, at all!), and subsequently Oliver Gregor, the designer, came to my studio to fix it on site. That is truly high-end...

However, he told me there were only 5-6 units left, and then they will cease production for good. The production run is limited to 50 units. So you would have to be quick...

[shelterr]

Originally Posted by airmate

The Rockruepel is more forward sounding in the (upper) mid range.

It's certainly useful for mix buss compression. But I almost always use it for a parallel buss with bass drum, snare (and sometimes toms and/or bass). My clients seem to LOVE it for that application, and so do I.

Their customer support is quite extraordinary, too. I had some issues with my unit (which turned out to be just a bad output tube). I sent the comp to them and received it back with fresh and freshly calibrated tubes within 48 hours. Then there was another problem due to extremely rough handling by the courier (not the manufacturer's fault, at all!), and subsequently Oliver Gregor, the designer, came to my studio to fix it on site. That is truly high-end...

However, he told me there were only 5-6 units left, and then they will cease production for good. The production run is limited to 50 units. So you would have to be quick...

That's crazy that they are only making 50 of them. I doubt I will ever get to hear one, but I sure would love to!