sonnox eq vs PSP vs URS etc

[drpenguen]

so far, i have rested

sonnox EQ
waves ren EQ
URS Fulltec EQ
PSP neon (liner phase switched off)
SSL EQ ( -58 db on meters which is inaudible for me in mix or mastering)
Cubase channel EQ ( the stinky one )

they all NULL i am afraid.... only difference is their Q value.... nothing else...


i am more than happy to test your favorite mastering EQ plug,
against my stinky cubase EQ.
make sure they have demo available for download

[NesNeedsGear]

yeah

thanks to the brave souls that decided to test EQ pluggos, and realized they can pretty much null each other out, I've come to the conclusion that the best EQ is the one that helps your individual workflow.

whichever you can tweak most easily, with a friendly GUI is pretty much the "best".

[drpenguen]

Originally Posted by NesNeedsGear

yeah

thanks to the brave souls that decided to test EQ pluggos, and realized they can pretty much null each other out, I've come to the conclusion that the best EQ is the one that helps your individual workflow.
.

that wasnt the reason for NULL test...

i have been reading on mastering posts that one says ohhhh waves ren EQ little harsh,
i prefer xyz bla bla bla.... or URS is this, i prefer QZQ bla bla

i knew they all sounded the same for a long time... i just never had free time to play around, and download demos...

Originally Posted by NesNeedsGear

whichever you can tweak most easily, with a friendly GUI is pretty much the "best".

i absolutely agree with you 10+thumbsup

[drpenguen]

addition to this

samplitude, logic, protools, cubase, sequola, nuendo
all NULL too....
on multitrack, with same plugs, or on mastering stereo tracks...

they are all the same too, i am afraid

[cooker]

I saw some threads but couldn't look into the matter yet. So all eq's null perfectly or just close?

[drpenguen]

Originally Posted by cooker

I saw some threads but couldn't look into the matter yet. So all eq's null perfectly or just close?

perfect infinity NULL on all...
except
on SSL EQ, it was reading -58 db on meters, but it is almost inaudible...
meters wasnt showing any light... only numeric value was written at the bottom of
cubase master bus output...
then i have shifted little tiny +0.2db on comb frequency on cubase EQ,
then it was almost perfect NULL.... SSL has two frequency going on at once, with second Q value i guess...
they are little cheeky
its shifting its comb frequency little tiny bit of amount.... so they think we cant NULL it

[Waltz Mastering]

I don't think any eq really show it's character until you start bending the frequencies.

TW

[drpenguen]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

I don't think any eq really show it's character until you start bending the frequencies.

TW

i was bending the frequencies.... if they are flat, they are already NULL

i was doing -/+ 10db, +/- 5 db etc on different frequencies....
set the same values to cubase, and all you have to is, fine adjust the Q,
thats it... as i mentioned before, every EQ has its own Q curve, and they all totally different curves... just like analog EQs, but there is no resistors, tubes etc involved here, only math...

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

I don't think any eq really show it's character until you start bending the frequencies.

TW

My thoughts as well. All you have proven is that they all have a true bypass.

Edit- ok so I see that you did adjust the actual EQ...that's interesting.

[24-96 Mastering]

Would you mind posting your exact test setup as well as the values (for each pair) that were used to null those EQs you quote? I would expect good cancellation on lots of them, but I'm surprised you got most of them to null 100%.

[drpenguen]

Originally Posted by Ben F

My thoughts as well. All you have proven is that they all have a true bypass.

Edit- ok so I see that you did adjust the actual EQ...that's interesting.

i am afraid so....

[lfranz5451]

im so annoyed with all my eq plugins i think ive decided to get an outbord summit feq ? any opinions on that piece?


lfranz5451

[drpenguen]

Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering

Would you mind posting your exact test setup as well as the values (for each pair) that were used to null those EQs you quote? I would expect good cancellation on lots of them, but I'm surprised you got most of them to null 100%.

no problem, i didnt saved the files... give me 10 min
i set one quickly...

[drpenguen]

Originally Posted by lfranz5451

im so annoyed with all my eq plugins i think ive decided to get an outbord summit feq ? any opinions on that piece?


lfranz5451

build a DIY sontec EQ
its 10 light years ahead of any digital EQ claims it self analog

[cooker]

Originally Posted by drpenguen

perfect infinity NULL on all...
except
on SSL EQ, it was reading -58 db on meters, but it is almost inaudible...
meters wasnt showing any light... only numeric value was written at the bottom of
cubase master bus output...
then i have shifted little tiny +0.2db on comb frequency on cubase EQ,
then it was almost perfect NULL.... SSL has two frequency going on at once, with second Q value i guess...
they are little cheeky
its shifting its comb frequency little tiny bit of amount.... so they think we cant NULL it

Thats interesting, I'll do a listening test for myself later on.

You could give nebula a try Acusticaudio , I don't remember what programs comes free as I deleted most but its the best eq plug-in I use for coloring everything. Here's a shot of one of my fav.s eq.'s curve.

[drpenguen]

Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering

Would you mind posting your exact test setup as well as the values (for each pair) that were used to null those EQs you quote? I would expect good cancellation on lots of them, but I'm surprised you got most of them to null 100%.

sonnox EQ :
HMF = 700 hz
gain = -4.44
Q = 1.41

URS Fulltec EQ:
freq = 700 hz
gain -5
Q = 4.04

cubase EQ :
freq = 700 hz
gain -4.7
Q = 1.0



this was a quick one... if you tweak them little more, you get more accurate results.

also, no sequencer, is 100% on delay compensation...
if you bounce them and see if they are perfectly lined up too...
very very very tiny little fine adjustment makes even better...

try yourself....

[drpenguen]

Originally Posted by cooker

Thats interesting, I'll do a listening test for myself later on.

You could give nebula a try Acusticaudio , I don't remember what programs comes free as I deleted most but its the best eq plug-in I use for coloring everything. Here's a shot of one of my fav.s eq.'s curve.

i have downloaded nebula free, but i havent installed it....
try values above.... all you have to do fine adjust your Q value on your favorite EQ

[drpenguen]

sonnox eq

Q = 1.49 NULLS BETTER to URS

-60db

no one can hear -60 db difference

[drpenguen]

once you null one frequency, turn that frequency off on all EQs
add another frequency your self...
and a noter one.... but null one at a time, then turn all frequencies on...
it works
adding more frequency doesnt change null characteristics...

if you try do 2-3 frequency at one time, it might take a lot longer time of yours...

[drpenguen]

waves REn 4 band EQ

freq = 700hz, but it sets it self to 702 hz
gain = -4.2
Q = 0.83

sec freq = 8khz
gain = +4 db
Q = 1.86

sonnox sec
freq = 8khz
gain +4 db
Q = 1.92

teak it little more... its on -50 db right now....

[cooker]

Originally Posted by drpenguen

i have downloaded nebula free, but i havent installed it....
try values above.... all you have to do fine adjust your Q value on your favorite EQ

I definitly try it but I want to hear too. Unless matched perfectly, I don't consider they sound same. I mean saying -58 db is inaudible is like saying I have hiss at -58 db on my mix for each track but it actually doesn't effect anything (but thats serious unwanted noise),, but I do get the point of what you mean.

I was %99 sure that cubase-protools-samplitude didn't sound the same but it has been a long time since I compared them. I'll try again though I'll have to visit friends. Only checking if pan law is same is enough right?

[drpenguen]

all tests are performed in the cubase SX3
macbookpro winows XP sp2
with ilok demo versions...

[drpenguen]

Originally Posted by cooker

I definitly try it but I want to hear too. Unless matched perfectly, I don't consider they sound same. I mean saying -58 db is inaudible is like saying I have hiss at -58 db on my mix for each track but it actually doesn't effect anything (but thats serious unwanted noise),, but I do get the point of what you mean.

I was %99 sure that cubase-protools-samplitude didn't sound the same but it has been a long time since I compared them. I'll try again though I'll have to visit friends. Only checking if pan law is same is enough right?

try the settings, bounce them, and do your self a blind test.

if you can hear a -58db difference on an EQ setting,
then you have some ears.... and i wil stop making music

try cubase vs protools etc too... place as many plugs you like too...
make sure you use the exact setting on both...
dot forget the pan law settings btw...

protools is set to -2.5db
cubase is menu selection of -6, -4.5, -3 0 etc...
try samp... it has user definable pan law...

if they dont null, and if you hear any difference on a blind test, i will stop making music,
i will be your slave

[macc]

Well done, congrats etc, but this has been done to death already.

[Eloheim]

Originally Posted by drpenguen

perfect infinity NULL on all...
except
on SSL EQ, it was reading -58 db on meters, but it is almost inaudible...
meters wasnt showing any light... only numeric value was written at the bottom of
cubase master bus output...
then i have shifted little tiny +0.2db on comb frequency on cubase EQ,
then it was almost perfect NULL.... SSL has two frequency going on at once, with second Q value i guess...
they are little cheeky
its shifting its comb frequency little tiny bit of amount.... so they think we cant NULL it

Did you have the "analog" switch on? People say all this does is add low-level noise.

[soundgeezer]

Interesting thread, but there is still one thing that is more important to me than any figures out there.
Putting +10db @ 10khz shelving on the Sonnox compared to the Cubase EQ and then doing a blind test I would definetly pick out the strong character of the Sonnox EQ with ease ... how do you explain that ?

[csl]

Originally Posted by soundgeezer

Interesting thread, but there is still one thing that is more important to me than any figures out there.
Putting +10db @ 10khz shelving on the Sonnox compared to the Cubase EQ and then doing a blind test I would definetly pick out the strong character of the Sonnox EQ with ease ... how do you explain that ?

Perhaps because the curves are different, as the OP mentions. Also takes slightly different gain values to null, also mentioned by the OP.

I think it's interesting to see how the 'character' of many EQ plugins comes down to nothing more than slight discrepancies of Q and gain, rather than any more esoteric processes such as saturation or harmonic changes.

Let's see how UAD-1 Pultec stacks up against the Cubase EQ...

[macc]

Example EQ Phase Plots

Wonderful site.

[csl]

Originally Posted by macc

Example EQ Phase Plots

Wonderful site.

Wow, check out those phase curves for the UAD-1 plugs... Cool stuff!

[drpenguen]

Originally Posted by soundgeezer

Interesting thread, but there is still one thing that is more important to me than any figures out there.
Putting +10db @ 10khz shelving on the Sonnox compared to the Cubase EQ and then doing a blind test I would definetly pick out the strong character of the Sonnox EQ with ease ... how do you explain that ?

i think you have almost perfect eras... there is no explanation to this
i dont have the ability to pick the difference between nulling EQs

dont forget +10db 10khz on sonnox is different value matching on cubase...