Who the Hell is Mastering these days???

[dhiltonlittle]

so i got a master back today for a MAJOR label mix i did. i'm not going to say the label/artist but wtf! this is the worst mastering job i've ever heard. distortion , compressors working in horrible ways, bad eq, 0 Dynamics. it really sucks to not have a say in who masters your mix. i'm going to have to say something about this though....

pic included....

[jdg]

screw pictures, lets have some audio

[sniperschool]

wow they missed a few bits
i can see some daylight!

[macc]

Originally Posted by jdg

screw pictures, lets have some audio

Screw audio, lets have some names to slag off

[Crash]

Originally Posted by sniperschool

wow they missed a few bits
i can see some daylight!

That is what I was gonna say.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by dhiltonlittle

so i got a master back today for a MAJOR label mix i did. i'm not going to say the label/artist but wtf! this is the worst mastering job i've ever heard. distortion , compressors working in horrible ways, bad eq, 0 Dynamics. it really sucks to not have a say in who masters your mix. i'm going to have to say something about this though....

pic included....

First a few things to consider:

1) Was the song a single or is it part of an album? What are the levels and soun dof the songs around it? If your track was mixed softer but the other tracks mixed hotter than to get your song in the same ball park he would have to make it match and push it.

2) The label wanted hotter sounding tracks especially for I tunes sales, so they needed everything to be as hot as all the songs in the genre.

It sucks but there is a reason its called the music bizness.

[Rednose]

Originally Posted by dhiltonlittle

so i got a master back today for a MAJOR label mix i did. i'm not going to say the label/artist but wtf! this is the worst mastering job i've ever heard. distortion , compressors working in horrible ways, bad eq, 0 Dynamics. it really sucks to not have a say in who masters your mix. i'm going to have to say something about this though....

pic included....

This is why I've started mastering on a limited bassis.
I've sent some of my mixes on the artist's request to thier ME.
The mixes came back destroyed!
Just like you say, distorted, KRAP!dfegad
At least I won't ruin the mixes I personally master.

That being said, I do have a couple of go to ME's that I can trust if the artist's budget allows.

[666666]

Originally Posted by dhiltonlittle

so i got a master back today for a MAJOR label mix i did. i'm not going to say the label/artist but wtf! this is the worst mastering job i've ever heard. distortion , compressors working in horrible ways, bad eq, 0 Dynamics. it really sucks to not have a say in who masters your mix. i'm going to have to say something about this though....
pic included....

Had the same experience not too long ago, mastered at a well-known mastering place in NYC... we spoke to the "engineer" and just about had to beg him to back off on the crush enough to at least get rid of the raging crackling distortion... took him several tries to get it to an almost acceptable place, wasting time and causing much frustration, etc... end product is still crushed and lifeless (and terrible), apparently the artist gave the go-ahead, was tired of waiting... another good mix ruined... oh well... the artist could have saved a lot of money by having a monkey mix the project on cheap gear, would have come out sounding nearly the same in the end anyway... smashed, crushed, distorted lifeless mess, no tone, no clarity, no depth, no space... it's a shame, it really is... a lot of careful work, down the drain... indeed frustrating.

[streetvibes]

I feel with you, that must suck. Just tell the ME, he obviously needs to hear it!

[Crash]

Originally Posted by streetvibes

I feel with you, that must suck. Just tell the ME, he obviously needs to hear it!

I would think seeing the solid blocks of audio would speak volumes. Maybe he needs to "see" it instead.

[macc]

Originally Posted by Rednose

This is why I've started mastering on a limited bassis.

*insert wisecrack here*

I'll start;

Looks like they are already doing it on very very limited basis.

boom boom, etc.

[Greg Reierson]

There are many mastering engineers here with decades of experience that don't approach every project with the "set to stun" mindset that a lot of the big mastering factories do. You might even save a few thousand dollars...


GR

[faun2500]

Yeah, I went thru and listened (and looked) at a few of my cd albums including Kaiser Chiefs, Muse, killers, Keane, coldplay and I can honestly say that if this is what "£100000 of 'MASTERING' hardware sounds like I dont want any!!!!

Really, I could master them better myself and maybe keep afew of the snare hits while im doing it. Im not a mastering engineer but i know what im doing and i know what dynamic range is too.

These albums sound ok in the car but on headphones or on decent speakers/studio monitors they sound complete crap.



There, I wanted to say that for a while. lol


WHAT IF??? the people stop buying music until the sound is a little less loud.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Greg Reierson

There are many mastering engineers here with decades of experience that don't approach every project with the "set to stun" mindset that a lot of the big mastering factories do. You might even save a few thousand dollars...


GR

Yeah but if a major label's A&R has never heard of some of these people or places there is no way they are not going to take chances with it.

Also on major label records where there are multiple engineers mixing, the top guys will always push the ME they know & will make their tracks sound the best.

In certain cases you end up with 2 ME's doing the record too make everyone happy.

[jdg]

Originally Posted by faun2500

WHAT IF??? the people stop buying music until the sound is a little less loud.

i think thats been happening already for the last 10yrs

[Greg Reierson]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Yeah but if a major label's A&R has never heard of some of these people or places there is no way they are not going to take chances with it.

There are some on this list who have done their share of major work who aren't associated with Gateway or Grundman. That's who I'm talking about.

Also on major label records where there are multiple engineers mixing, the top guys will always push the ME they know & will make their tracks sound the best.

Yeah, we've all heard that lately.... There are many names you may not recognize who do great work for indie and label artist every day.

The best movies are often the one's with NO stars on the marquee.


GR

[Ben F]

Perhaps there should be a "Gearslutz mastering forum seal of approval" sticker on the front of new releases if they sound ok. A little tick box for "Passes RTA test" as well.

[macc]

^ ALOL

[wado1942]

i think thats been happening already for the last 10yrs

I think the last NEW album I bought was about 5 years ago. I've asked my relatives to stop giving me CDs too because I can't listen to them. I've been buying the occasional left-over old release but that's about it.

The best movies are often the one's with NO stars on the marquee

Like Rockula? You have to admit, a 400-year-old vampire living with his mother, starting a band to impress a girl is pretty original.


The problem is, the same 5 guys are behind all the major releases. Since they're the only ones getting the work, they keep releasing the biggest hits. Since they get the biggest hits, they keep getting all the work. They're going to keep pushing it harder and harder till somebody shoots them, then guess what? They'll be replaced by somebody who tries to sound just like them. That's how the business works. It's all about "what's selling right now? Well let's do that then". Since there's no other options, the path will continue on the same direction. The record industry has always been out of touch. It will only change when the industry fails. It's heading in that direction right now but it'll take a while.

[Greg Reierson]

Originally Posted by wado1942

The problem is, the same 5 guys are behind all the major releases. Since they're the only ones getting the work, they keep releasing the biggest hits...

All true, but let's not forget there are many many other styles of music that still demand quality recording and production techniques. Luckily they tend to be indie projects and don't suffer the fate of so many 'major' label projects.


GR

[bcgood]

I own a lot of music. You would laugh if you knew how much money I've spent on cd's over the last 17 years. I just bought a cd the other day. It was an old one though, Tom Tom club's self titled album. I probably still buy a couple of cd's a month. Some new but mostly old. Stuff made now definitely doesn't sound as good to me as a lot of the stuff especially from the 70's and 80's. There really does need to be some sort of set standard that everyone abides by. Otherwise it's like the blind leading the blind.

[Adam Dempsey]

Originally Posted by wado1942

Since there's no other options

Ah, but there are, aren't there. We know it, musicians know it.
It's a bit like the commercial media: the issue of perception often trumps reality.

:The best movies are often the one's with NO stars on the marquee

Although I thought Gran Torino was excellent.
But then again, Clint Eastwood is a master. Pun intended.

[Crash]

Originally Posted by Ben F

Perhaps there should be a "Gearslutz mastering forum seal of approval" sticker on the front of new releases if they sound ok. A little tick box for "Passes RTA test" as well.

Whatever happened with that turnmeup.org site? OK here it is:

Turn Me Up! | Bringing Dynamics Back To Music

I signed up for this when they first launched and thought they were going to offer some sort of seal of approval for projects submitted that met some sort of criteria to be determined by them. Did this ever move forward with any fortitude? I actually was looking forward to getting the seal on an upcoming project.

[wado1942]

Whatever happened with that turnmeup.org site? OK here it is:

It's a total joke. There's been a few albums with that label on them and they're generally like -7dBfs RMS instead of the now-usual -6 to -5dBfs RMS. I don't think they actually try to make anything happen. Rather, they stand by in idle mode while waiting for people to come to them and ask for permission to break the common "balls to the wall" limiting standards.

Ah, but there are, aren't there. We know it, musicians know it.

Well yeah, of course. But the general population is completely ignorant and that's the way they want to stay. I just had a discussion with a guy that thought the new metallica album sounded great, as long as you have a top quality stereo......

[david1103]

DYNAMIC RANGE | pleasurize music!

check it out

[wado1942]

DYNAMIC RANGE | pleasurize music!

They're still powerless, but at least they're doing SOMETHING!

[RDMS]

Something sad happened to audio in the last 10 years.
Video has gone to high definition while audio has actually degraded to mp3 as the preferred consumer format.

OK, Itunes has a lossless? standard which is a little better. On the whole though it all comes back to the ipod generation.

So many people are now "mastering" their own recordings now it's gone from "should know better than that" to " No idea whatsoever".

The future lies in the hands of independant mastering engineers that are not slaves to the system.

[usefullidiot]

This is really about two seperate issues, those "engineers" who master their own stuff and the big name MEs who brickwall everything (at the clients request or not) should know better.

The other side concerning fidelity and Mp3s etc isnt such a big issue...your average kid doesnt care a great deal about quality, they dig the tunes and thats all that really matters. When I was a kid I listened to tapes on my crap ghettoblaster, I still loved the music and it still meant something.

Those who wish to pursue better sounding audio have the avenues avalible to do so (Hi-fi stereos etc), when this issues starts to become interesting is when you get MEs/engineers making music with the one format (mp3) in mind...thus negating the possibilty of a higher level of listening...but then again this issue seems kinda genre specific and those who would persue a decent system wont really buy the records that suffer from this problem

[usefullidiot]

Originally Posted by RDMS

The future lies in the hands of independant mastering engineers that are not slaves to the system.

And those who engage them!!

[9th Ward Records]

i think i did that one... sorry, i was high.