Mastering - lunchbox - 500 series

Gomez · 9th March 2009

Hi fellas.

has anyone popped a lunchbox in their mastering chain?

Apart from ST link, recall and stepped knobs, are there any other "problems" that should be considered? I'm looking at mine thinking "Hmmm..." however I only have mic pre's in it, but though maybe in the future I could add a pair of 525 comps and two 550b eq's?

Would be good to add some API flavor in mastering chain...

What do you think?

Jorg · 9th March 2009

...would be great in general if there were any stereo units out there.

I think the whole concept comes from the console channel strips tho.

bluestarbass · 9th March 2009

I have thought of this many times. I do alot of work at home, and itd be nice to have something portable I could move back and forth easily. I havent found anything that gave me enough options eq wise and compressor wise. Its be really cool in theory though.

Cellotron · 10th March 2009

I don't have a lunchbox and don't really ever plan to get one - but I do use 2 Empirical Labs "DerrEsser" 500 series de-esser/high frequency limiters in mastering chain and have found them invaluable and one of my favorite recent aquisitions. I use an Avedis R52 1RU 2 module psu for them. \\

Obviously the other 500 series eq that is sometimes seen in mastering studios is the 550m - although the 5500 gives you an optional "true" hard bypass, plus more versatile control over the ranges, so might be a better option at this point.

The other 500 series eq's and comps I've seen seem too unrecallable or with too steep steps to be used easily in mastering - although I did see a pair of Avedis eq's in Alan Silvermans rack as a secondary eq when I visited his place a few months ago.

Anyway - I really like API's stuff a lot and use the 5500 and 2500 all the time - to me both these pieces would definitely be worth the extra cash over just the 500 series modules if you were using them primarily for mastering.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

**Riccardo** · 10th March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cellotron

I don't have a lunchbox and don't really ever plan to get one - but I do use 2 Empirical Labs "DerrEsser" 500 series de-esser/high frequency limiters in mastering chain and have found them invaluable and one of my favorite recent aquisitions. I use an Avedis R52 1RU 2 module psu for them. \\

Obviously the other 500 series eq that is sometimes seen in mastering studios is the 550m - although the 5500 gives you an optional "true" hard bypass, plus more versatile control over the ranges, so might be a better option at this point.

The other 500 series eq's and comps I've seen seem too unrecallable or with too steep steps to be used easily in mastering - although I did see a pair of Avedis eq's in Alan Silvermans rack as a secondary eq when I visited his place a few months ago.

Anyway - I really like API's stuff a lot and use the 5500 and 2500 all the time - to me both these pieces would definitely be worth the extra cash over just the 500 series modules if you were using them primarily for mastering.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Steve,
are you using the "new" horizontal version I saw in a video (probably from NAMM) a couple of weeks back?
(the deresser I mean)

Cellotron · 10th March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riccardo

Steve,
are you using the "new" horizontal version I saw in a video (probably from NAMM) a couple of weeks back?
(the deresser I mean)

Nope - mine are the originals - serial #'s 0015 & 0016! -

Best regards,
Steve Berson

jdg · 10th March 2009

i have the horiz version of the DerrEssers coming in a few days... and i hope hope hope its the correct orientation for the avedis rack.. as my 550Ms are upside down.

so i have to run the rack upside down, making my poor little OCD brain explode.

lucey · 10th March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdg

so i have to run the rack upside down, making my poor little OCD brain explode.

black duct tape!

I had the R52 running some things for a time (no Derr-essers) but the hardware was just not up to the level of the rest of the chain.

jdg · 10th March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucey

black duct tape!

i did that! still my broken brain knows, under the tape, is upside text.

lucey · 10th March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdg

i did that! still my broken brain knows, under the tape, is upside text.

You're sick .... and definitely a mastering engineer.

jdg · 10th March 2009

glad im not a typing engineer, i'd fail that job

jdg · 19th March 2009

i remember seeing those daking EQs during an AES a few years back.. the 1/4dB step mode is a great idea. they're out??

Adam Dempsey · 19th March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdg

my 550Ms are upside down.

Don't think I could work with sW022 EQs.

jdg · 19th March 2009

also, for anyone who cares, the 550Ms are not right side up in an a-designs rack. but you can flop the connectors (not easy) which u cannot do with he avedis rack.

now the tan adesigns rack and black 550s are driving me crazy

the blue of the API 500 rack and the black 550s also drove me

Ben F · 19th March 2009

Or the new Tube Tech / Home - Tube compressor - tube equalizer 500 series

Mike Couzzi · 20th March 2009

Hey Gomez,I use a pair fo API 550bs for mastering.I had a tech mod. them for 1/2 db steps.I use the 6 space lunchbox for now, but looking for a 2 space rack.When you want that API sound it's a great way to go if you already have the modules.Without the 1/2 db mod. the EQ's have too much gain,no finesse.
If you decide to go that route be aware the inputs are unbalanced.Some balanced gear is very sensitive to mismatching impedances.I had problems using them with mY Pendulum Audio compressor and Millenia EQ.I had to buy a pair of Jensen transformers which made eveything behave nicely.
Good Luck!

Gomez · 20th March 2009

Interesting answers here.

I was actually trying the output of my analog rig into the 512c pres and the output of that into my lavry (to clip)... didn't work out, the 512c's were distorting like mad... some impedance problem I assume... I'd like to get some 550b's for it I think!

Gomez · 20th March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntley Miller

That shouldn't happen if you're padding the output down to mic level.

With the pad on just sounded like half the audio was missing (very tiny and distorted) and without the pads it wouldn't handle the level. I did knock off the signals' level at the sequencer's output until it stopped distorting - then the level was way too low...

I'm wondering if the 512c's input at the front and back have different levels... haven't really played around with it much.

lucey · 20th March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomshanka

Don't think I could work with sW022 EQs.

Ha!

Mike Couzzi · 21st March 2009

Hey Gomez,I am not sure why you would be pluging your analog rig into a Mic Pre?The impedance and gain staging are all wrong.If you need gain try the unbalanced input.Also the API lunchbox has output gain adjustments on the PCB,just remove the modules and you'll see them.
I use the Lavry Blue and it has internal settings for balanced unbalanced and pin2 or 3 Hot.Make sure you have this set correctly for the gear your connecting.

Still if you get 550b's you may still have a problem with the unbalanced in.Good Luck

Cellotron · 21st March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdg

i have the horiz version of the DerrEssers coming in a few days... and i hope hope hope its the correct orientation for the avedis rack.. as my 550Ms are upside down.

John -
Dave Derr was kind enough to send me horizontal face plates for my DerrEsser's - and yes, they are the correct orientation for the Avedis R52 rack. So your poor OCD brain has no need for further explosion thinking about these!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

jdg · 21st March 2009

yup got them a the day after i posted.
works great in R52 rack! i have them M/S..
amazing boxes.. i love it!

Cellotron · 21st March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdg

yup got them a the day after i posted.
works great in R52 rack! i have them M/S..
amazing boxes.. i love it!

Yeah - they've definitely saved numerous tracks for me, not only from sibilance but also from harsh piercing high end, and in a really musical sounding way that I haven't often gotten from digital options (which I still use for some things though). Definitely wouldn't want to live without them in the rack at this point - and they're a good bit cheaper than the Maselec options which are probably the only other analog de-essers worthy of a mastering chain being made now.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

jdg · 21st March 2009

100% agree.

the HF limit is really smooth on them.

even for stereo operation, its so easy to match L/R settings.. great little boxes.

best purchase i've made in a long time

**Riccardo** · 22nd March 2009

Are you guys using them mostly in M/S ?

Cellotron · 22nd March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riccardo

Are you guys using them mostly in M/S ?

Depends where the problem lies. One recent album there was sibilant vox up the middle but I wanted to keep the sparkle on the spinet panned hard L & R so I used one for Mid only. Another record where high end was harsh in general I used them L/R.

Having an analog M/S matrix available definitely makes them more versatile and useful though. I'm using modded ADR Propak Audiomates (just replaced the JRC opamps with really nicely speced NS LME's, and bypassed the input pots) as this is a good bit cheaper to get going than getting the Dangerous S/M - but I see that ADR discontinued these recently.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

jdg · 22nd March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riccardo

Are you guys using them mostly in M/S ?

sometimes. but the HF limiter at 11k on the sides sure smoothes out some nasty crash cymbals!

i find i really have to be careful with the threshold when in M/S as the image gets weird fast if im grabbing too much ess

lucey · 22nd March 2009

Sounds great. Is the bypass a relay or active? I'm mostly happy with software de-essing but would consider trying them if it was a hard bypass.

jdg · 22nd March 2009

relay bypass!

its a really great unit.

Cellotron · 22nd March 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdg

sometimes. but the HF limiter at 11k on the sides sure smoothes out some nasty crash cymbals!

i find i really have to be careful with the threshold when in M/S as the image gets weird fast if im grabbing too much ess

Yeah - you've got to be careful with the threshold anyway because when you cross a point with it you can start to darken the track beyond what you probably would want.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

9th March 2009	#1
Gomez Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: London U.K. Posts: 323 Thread Starter Verified Member	Mastering - lunchbox - 500 series Hi fellas. has anyone popped a lunchbox in their mastering chain? Apart from ST link, recall and stepped knobs, are there any other "problems" that should be considered? I'm looking at mine thinking "Hmmm..." however I only have mic pre's in it, but though maybe in the future I could add a pair of 525 comps and two 550b eq's? Would be good to add some API flavor in mastering chain... What do you think?

10th March 2009	#4
Cellotron Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 3,574 Verified Member	I don't have a lunchbox and don't really ever plan to get one - but I do use 2 Empirical Labs "DerrEsser" 500 series de-esser/high frequency limiters in mastering chain and have found them invaluable and one of my favorite recent aquisitions. I use an Avedis R52 1RU 2 module psu for them. \\ Obviously the other 500 series eq that is sometimes seen in mastering studios is the 550m - although the 5500 gives you an optional "true" hard bypass, plus more versatile control over the ranges, so might be a better option at this point. The other 500 series eq's and comps I've seen seem too unrecallable or with too steep steps to be used easily in mastering - although I did see a pair of Avedis eq's in Alan Silvermans rack as a secondary eq when I visited his place a few months ago. Anyway - I really like API's stuff a lot and use the 5500 and 2500 all the time - to me both these pieces would definitely be worth the extra cash over just the 500 series modules if you were using them primarily for mastering. Best regards, Steve Berson __________________ www.totalsonicmastering.com www.invertmusic.org www.warlockasylum.info

10th March 2009	#7
jdg Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: seattle, WA Posts: 2,524 Verified Member	i have the horiz version of the DerrEssers coming in a few days... and i hope hope hope its the correct orientation for the avedis rack.. as my 550Ms are upside down. so i have to run the rack upside down, making my poor little OCD brain explode. __________________ nothing helps "suck", not even analog panicStudios - mastering in seattle

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
212L in 500 series lunchbox?	HOTC	High end	5	10th December 2008 09:11 PM
500 series lunchbox	jeff4h	So much gear, so little time!	2	28th October 2008 05:37 PM
Q for 500 series/lunchbox owners. Rack mount or lunchbox?	C/G	So much gear, so little time!	15	20th October 2008 09:11 AM
500 Series lunchbox .. educate me!	watermelon	Low End Theory	10	24th June 2008 05:20 AM

9th March 2009	#2
Jorg Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,536 1 Review written	...would be great in general if there were any stereo units out there. I think the whole concept comes from the console channel strips tho.

9th March 2009	#3
bluestarbass Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 344	I have thought of this many times. I do alot of work at home, and itd be nice to have something portable I could move back and forth easily. I havent found anything that gave me enough options eq wise and compressor wise. Its be really cool in theory though.

19th March 2009	#12
jdg Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: seattle, WA Posts: 2,524 Verified Member	i remember seeing those daking EQs during an AES a few years back.. the 1/4dB step mode is a great idea. they're out??

19th March 2009	#15
Ben F Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,659 Verified Member	Or the new Tube Tech / Home - Tube compressor - tube equalizer 500 series

20th March 2009	#16
Mike Couzzi Gear Head Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: miami Posts: 58	Hey Gomez,I use a pair fo API 550bs for mastering.I had a tech mod. them for 1/2 db steps.I use the 6 space lunchbox for now, but looking for a 2 space rack.When you want that API sound it's a great way to go if you already have the modules.Without the 1/2 db mod. the EQ's have too much gain,no finesse. If you decide to go that route be aware the inputs are unbalanced.Some balanced gear is very sensitive to mismatching impedances.I had problems using them with mY Pendulum Audio compressor and Millenia EQ.I had to buy a pair of Jensen transformers which made eveything behave nicely. Good Luck!

21st March 2009	#20
Mike Couzzi Gear Head Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: miami Posts: 58	Hey Gomez,I am not sure why you would be pluging your analog rig into a Mic Pre?The impedance and gain staging are all wrong.If you need gain try the unbalanced input.Also the API lunchbox has output gain adjustments on the PCB,just remove the modules and you'll see them. I use the Lavry Blue and it has internal settings for balanced unbalanced and pin2 or 3 Hot.Make sure you have this set correctly for the gear your connecting. Still if you get 550b's you may still have a problem with the unbalanced in.Good Luck

22nd March 2009	#25
Riccardo Mastering Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Always on the Run Posts: 2,570 Verified Member	Are you guys using them mostly in M/S ?

22nd March 2009	#28
lucey Gear Guru Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 12,365 Verified Member	Sounds great. Is the bypass a relay or active? I'm mostly happy with software de-essing but would consider trying them if it was a hard bypass.