Passive EQ shoot out...

[dave-G]

Originally Posted by jdg

i have yet to hear an EQ i 100% love besides the nseq-ƒ
i just hate the ergonomics on the beast!

Originally Posted by Paul Gold

If you know you'll use it forever get some real switches and a front panel made. You'll love it 200%. It might even sound better. Won't be cheap though.

Originally Posted by jdg

i agree. i've had it apart many times, looking at the filter cards where the pots are mounted, thinking about how i could ruin this eq.

...

hopefully fred comes out with his mastering EQ before i get stupid enuf to try it.

I'm with you. The NSEQ-F is so good, but I think I might have a seizure the next time I have to write down "+3clicks @ +2clicks over 20(x10), Q=4clicks left of 1.0"

I can't even count the number of times I've thought "Just put it in a new chassis with some switches.. etc" ... but I also have to figure there might be something to the fact that that this is really all Fred would need to do to make a mastering EQ, and yet somehow that hasn't happened yet.

Originally Posted by jdg

back on topic tho. the passive EQ i would like to have again would be the passEQ.
really super sounding box but a totally dumb layout.

Totally agree, the PassEQ sounds great. I feel like I've got the ultimate idiot-savant, great sound/poor ergonomic EQ pairing with both the NSEQ-F and the PassEQ here. And they really do complement each other quite well sonically.

Originally Posted by jdg

and i do love the sound of a good transformer

DSZZH-ZZZH-ZZZH-DSZZHT!!

-dave

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by Ben F

That...is one of the meanest looking EQs I've ever seen. Nice work!

Great things coming out of Finland!
Anybody heard or uses the Knif Etip EQ?

[sabian]

Originally Posted by Riccardo

Great things coming out of Finland!
Anybody heard or uses the Knif Etip EQ?

Hey Ricardo, you have something to share on Jonte's stuff?
I know a lot of people in Finland use it, never got to hear any of it myself...
Analog M+S alone is very interesting. The closest I got was getting some stuff processed with his vari-mu app. 2 years ago - it certainly sounded good, in a clean way (Lundhals).
As usual no demo unit was available so I just bought my EAR660s....
Might check him out soon re etip...

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by sabian

Hey Ricardo, you have something to share on Jonte's stuff?
I know a lot of people in Finland use it, never got to hear any of it myself...
Analog M+S alone is very interesting. The closest I got was getting some stuff processed with his vari-mu app. 2 years ago - it certainly sounded good, in a clean way (Lundhals).
As usual no demo unit was available so I just bought my EAR660s....
Might check him out soon re etip...

Nope, unfortunately never had the opportunity. It is on my ever changing imaginary list of EQs to check out sooner or later (Knif, Buzz, Elysia)

[Ben F]

I just by by passed the output transformers on the Massive Passive.

I can't believe how much better the sound is- gone is the veil over the top end, bass is clear and tight. Damn it should have done this ages ago.

[William Bowden]

Whhhhaaaat Ben, I thought you always ran it from the jacks?

The King

[turtlerock]

hey matt,
i had forgotten all that api talk we had , reading this it looks like you flipped ideas and now your agreeing with me about the 5500

so now you trust me a bit -if you want to talk about passive mastering eq you should hear this
..is it worth the money...? , well i use it everyday so i guess so

[turtlerock]

i meant this eq

[MattGray]

Yes, decided to listen for myself after you'd had both in & compared. Turns out you were absolutely right about the low shelves on the 5500 a bit tighter & punchier with less mud.

I also remembered you talking about the Parkside but put it out of my mind when you mentioned it was $12k haha. You'd hope it would sound amazing for that sort of money... is the gain really 2dB steps or are the post infinitely variable? & what's the deal is the low & high bands shelves & the mid band a bell?

Rick have you taken the Manley Mini Massive or the Buzz Audio REQ-2.2 for a spin yet?

[Virtalahde]

Originally Posted by Riccardo

Great things coming out of Finland!
Anybody heard or uses the Knif Etip EQ?

It's a great EQ, no doubt. Very flexible. One particular technical aspect I like about it is that the inductors are bloody HUGE. Way over-sized cores, no saturation.

[MattGray]

Originally Posted by Ben F

I just by by passed the output transformers on the Massive Passive.

I can't believe how much better the sound is- gone is the veil over the top end, bass is clear and tight. Damn it should have done this ages ago.

Ben I would've thought you would've tried this for sure already! Well glad it's worked out for you anyway. How your Mass Pass sounds unbalanced is very close to how the Mini Massive sounds in 'Iron' transformer mode on the low end & the mids imo. If you run the Mini transformerless it is in another league of clear & tight without the valve harmonics/softening effect.

[turtlerock]

nah matt , i try not to test too much gear
i have that ( if it does something better then what I currently own I buy it problem ).

Due to a number of factors I must add have become financially involved in Parkside sound now, when the GFC subsides I think there will be room for more products of this ilk in the market .
But I think at those prices ( and well justified ) the market is limited and the current growth for them has been negative.

the gain is 1 db steps but as the slopes are really wide its arbitrary , more like the 1 click for each time you can decern a difference,
its M/S - not left right -high and low shelves , middle with wide variable but still wide bell , and the elliptical eq section monos the bottom end .
its really all about boost eq , with a little bit of cut

it all discrete class A runs massive head room ( near the theoritical limits) everything is switched on AAAA grade switches AAAA parts etc .

it is really refined into an exactly what you need box , not a surgical deal at all


And in case you haven't heard the weiss/maya DA is now officially being spoken of , rrp.price is set and its is ($200,000us !)

it will be launched at integrate next week, i guess i will show a pix my one here straight after if all is clear on the promo front

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by William Bowden

Whhhhaaaat Ben, I thought you always ran it from the jacks?

The King

No...I cast transformers upon thee.

[sabian]

Originally Posted by turtlerock

nah matt , i try not to test too much gear
i have that ( if it does something better then what I currently own I buy it problem ).

I know that problem! But then, is ignorance really a bliss? If I hadn't tested all this stuff I'd either be buying based on people's comments here or not at all and still be stuck with TL Audio or something....

[macc]

Originally Posted by sabian

I know that problem! But then, is ignorance really a bliss? If I hadn't tested all this stuff I'd either be buying based on people's comments here or not at all and still be stuck with TL Audio or something....

You're such a liar... When you popped out of the studio I had a closer look and those EAR 660s are actually Behringer composers with snazzy faceplates. Shame on you.

[mcsnare]

I'm finally going to re-box my FF. Switches on everything, more freq points on the shelves and maybe a fifth band. I'll let you guys k ow how it turns out.
Dave

[jdg]

Originally Posted by mcsnare

I'm finally going to re-box my FF. Switches on everything, more freq points on the shelves and maybe a fifth band. I'll let you guys k ow how it turns out.
Dave

r u doing it yourself?

take notes!

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by mcsnare

I'm finally going to re-box my FF. Switches on everything, more freq points on the shelves and maybe a fifth band. I'll let you guys k ow how it turns out.
Dave

I'd be very interested in the details, if you don't mind sharing (who's doing it, what switches, what box design, any other design specifics, etc). Thinking of reboxing an EQ myself...

[mcsnare]

I'm doing it with a fellow mastering engineer (who happens to be a brilliant tech) Randy Merrill. Maybe I'll take some pics as we progress.
Dave

[sabian]

Originally Posted by macc

You're such a liar... When you popped out of the studio I had a closer look and those EAR 660s are actually Behringer composers with snazzy faceplates. Shame on you.

Ooooops... should never have left you alone in there.... and that Mytek ur picking up is actually M-audio inside... never mind, it's what you do with it, init.

On a serious note, I borrowed my friend's Massive Passive to try it unbalanced and it's night and day.... what I was hearing a few years ago using it balanced is still the case, loss of top + bottom etc , really couldn't use it like that... also got this info from a very competent tech:

"Be careful with Massive. It is OK when driving high impedances, but runs into big trouble into low Z, like 600 Ohms. The headroom just vanishes, and treble goes down -3dB at 20kHz, if transformer output is used. -3dB!! So, check that you don't try to make it drive anything vintage gear or some modern copies of vintage equipment. I don't remember the Z in of your compressors, so check that. I suggest 2 kOhms minimum."

At least it's not me being deaf it seems....

[turtlerock]

Originally Posted by sabian

"Be careful with Massive. It is OK when driving high impedances, but runs into big trouble into low Z, like 600 Ohms. The headroom just vanishes, and treble goes down -3dB at 20kHz, if transformer output is used. -3dB!! So, check that you don't try to make it drive anything vintage gear or some modern copies of vintage equipment. I don't remember the Z in of your compressors, so check that. I suggest 2 kOhms minimum."

.

this has not been my experience with the massive , and i have an audio precision test rig rigged up in my room at all times because i am always curious , i run the massive it into new stuff old stuff , whatever.

that said mine is a very old massive , one of the first lot they made.
i have heard stories that the trannies may have changed , or that the first lot were sowters with manley cases or something like that - well the transfomer types is rumour i have no idea really , but my one does not have the kind of issues that i keep reading about here on GS.
the bottom end is great , and unbalancing it does not make a "huge difference" to the tone or tightness.
however i must say the tubes are mission critical, and they dont last very long (2 years)

[sabian]

Sadly I won't be able to hold on to my Great River MAQ-2NV, so here it is up for grabs
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gears...ml#post4326517

[Andy Krehm]

Originally Posted by turtlerock

this has not been my experience with the massive , and i have an audio precision test rig rigged up in my room at all times because i am always curious , i run the massive it into new stuff old stuff , whatever.

that said mine is a very old massive , one of the first lot they made.
i have heard stories that the trannies may have changed , or that the first lot were sowters with manley cases or something like that - well the transfomer types is rumour i have no idea really , but my one does not have the kind of issues that i keep reading about here on GS.
the bottom end is great , and unbalancing it does not make a "huge difference" to the tone or tightness.
however i must say the tubes are mission critical, and they dont last very long (2 years)

Yes, I am also puzzled when I see posts where the observations about a piece of gear that I own that make absolutely no sense in my world!

The Massive Passive is used daily by many, many engineers with ears and credits, both mastering and rec/mixing, so if one tries one and get results like this poster reports:

"...what I was hearing a few years ago using it balanced is still the case, loss of top + bottom etc , really couldn't use it like that..."

The very first thing to do would be to find out what you are doing wrong in your setup so you can really hear the unit as it was meant to be heard!!!

However, I have noted more than a few times that some like the MP w/o transformers so I am motivated to try it that way. However, I have the funny feeling my observations will be the same as Rick's.

When I put the MP in and out of bp with no eq bands engaged, it does have a noticible colour to it which to my ears is more evident in the mids on up. I don't hear any significant bottom end change unless I engage a lower band. If I like what it's doing, I use it. If not, I look elsewhere. Isn't that what eq-ing is all about? You have your "toolbox" and you pick the right one for the job.

Then there is this thought from a tech guy:

....."Be careful with Massive. It is OK when driving high impedances, but runs into big trouble into low Z, like 600 Ohms. The headroom just vanishes, and treble goes down -3dB at 20kHz, if transformer output is used. -3dB!! So, check that you don't try to make it drive anything vintage gear or some modern copies of vintage equipment. I don't remember the Z in of your compressors, so check that. I suggest 2 kOhms minimum."

I have never had any problems like this but I did check to see what's driving what! Since I am running point to point here and have been doing it for so long without changing it up that I actually had to check to see where the MP is in my analog chain. It is after the Prism MEA-2 (grey face) and before the Vari-Mu (Mastering Edition). Both my Manleys are several years old and sound great!

And that brings to mind the negative Prism MEA-2 comments. Obviously personal taste plays a large part here. I had the SPL PQ EQ here for a test drive and really liked it. However my opinion of the "sound" is that it is slightly euphoric and adds a sheen, not in a negative way, but it is not, IMO, a neutral eq. It also cannot carve narrow frequencies and the sides are always off a bit when in link mode (the price you pay for digital recallability). So for me, the price for the Mastering Edition is not worth it and so I didn't buy it. I do like my Prism, however, which is less than half the price and does the job I bought it for which is to be my one and only solid state (almost) transparent, precision eq.

Once again, look at the penetration of eqs in the market. How many SPL PQs, mastering and recording, and how many Prisms? Would the ratio be 200 to 1? 300 to 1? Probably a lot higher! Does that make it "better"? Not at all but it should be noted that there are a lot of Prism MEA-2s working daily in many mastering and recording studios world-wide so it must have some merit! No one with "ears" would knowingly add a sound that some have charactarized as "plastic" to their mixes or masters!

The only eqs I'd really like to try, if I was looking, would be the Buzz and Sontec but buying more gear, at least at the moment, is not in the cards here!

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by Ben F

I just by by passed the output transformers on the Massive Passive.

I can't believe how much better the sound is- gone is the veil over the top end, bass is clear and tight. Damn it should have done this ages ago.

Yep!
Sounds good right?

[MattGray]

If in doubt about the Massive Passive, do the test for yourself... the difference was very obvious here & I had it on it's own insert on the Dangerous Master when I did the tests (wasn't driving anything else in the chain). I wouldn't say that it lost high end, to me it just sounded a little less detailed, transients a bit softer & the low end was a bit muddier.

Perhaps as Rick said some of the earliest MP's didn't suffer the same kind of problems that the newer ones do, not sure can't verify but everyone owes it to themselves to try it & see if it makes a difference, it only takes 10 minutes to make up some unbalances jack to XLR leads to try it out & there is very little level difference at all between the 2 methods.

SAMPLES COMING

I've uploaded all the files to Ben @ Subvert & he will provide us with some links shortly that everyone can access to download the samples that I've created. I've uploaded 2 sets of samples depending on how much bandwidth you would like to use...

A full set of 24-96k samples (955MB) & another set that are 16-44.1kHz (459MB) with the exception of the Country tracks which I left at 24-96k. I will be very interested to hear the various opinions on the provided samples. I'd suggest listening carefully then posting strengths & weaknesses of each EQ sample based on certain criteria such as overall best sounding EQ sample, best high end, best low end, best mids, most transparent, least detailed etc.

You'll also be able to hear the difference for yourself regarding the balanced out & unbalanced (transformerless) output on a brand new Massive Passive Mastering Edition. Please give opinions there as well.

I'll have a review for the Buzz REQ-2.2 shortly...

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

Yep!
Sounds good right?

The difference is night and day. I will post some files as well.

Suffice to say I have a new found love for the Massivo- even though I would never get rid of it, boosting anything in the low end just sounded soft with a loss of transients. Just inserting it in the path on a really nice mix was affecting the sound too much. And this one is being driven with the correct load. You can really hear a sort of low pass filter across the mix with the transformers.

Now, bypassing the transformers, It's tight, clean and punchy.

I should add I do a lot of electronic music, dub and hip-hop. For indie rock the transformers would be the right vibe.

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by MattGray

I
SAMPLES COMING

I've uploaded all the files to Ben @ Subvert & he will provide us with some links shortly that everyone can access to download the samples that I've created. I've uploaded 2 sets of samples depending on how much bandwidth you would like to use...

A full set of 24-96k samples (955MB) & another set that are 16-44.1kHz (459MB) with the exception of the Country tracks which I left at 24-96k. I will be very interested to hear the various opinions on the provided samples. I'd suggest listening carefully then posting strengths & weaknesses of each EQ sample based on certain criteria such as overall best sounding EQ sample, best high end, best low end, best mids, most transparent, least detailed etc.

You'll also be able to hear the difference for yourself regarding the balanced out & unbalanced (transformerless) output on a brand new Massive Passive Mastering Edition. Please give opinions there as well.

I'll have a review for the Buzz REQ-2.2 shortly...

Great! Can this thread not diverge into arguments about dithering and sample rates? I'm so sick of those threads.

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by Ben F

dithering and sample rates?

Dithering has no influence on sample rate!


























Just kidding. Looking forward to the review (maybe even samples?) of the Buzz EQ too

[MattGray]

While we're waiting for the rest of the samples to be posted. Check out this new set of samples I did this morning...

https://www.yousendit.com/download/c...NXYzMWtLSkE9PQ

These are blindly labeled, download & pick which one you prefer & why, then try to guess which one is the Buzz REQ-2.2 & which one is the Sontec MES-432C Samples are 24-96kHz with very closely matched curves.

If you're also interested in the original mix for comparison, please use this link to download...

https://www.yousendit.com/download/c...UzdvQUlLSkE9PQ

[Stereophonic]

Originally Posted by MattGray

While we're waiting for the rest of the samples to be posted. Check out this new set of samples I did this morning...

https://www.yousendit.com/download/c...NXYzMWtLSkE9PQ

These are blindly labeled, download & pick which one you prefer & why, then try to guess which one is the Buzz REQ-2.2 & which one is the Sontec MES-432C Samples are 24-96kHz with very closely matched curves.

If you're also interested in the original mix for comparison, please use this link to download...

https://www.yousendit.com/download/c...UzdvQUlLSkE9PQ

Oh man, this is great! Thank you Matt. I am getting up extra early tomorrow to give it a spin.

Timothy Stollenwerk
503-407-2521
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