Passive EQ shoot out...

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by syra

Amen! I have a ton of comps and I've heard probably everything out there. It took me 5 minutes ordering a second EAR 660 when I heard 2 on the buss. Magic.

+2
must have second 660 ASAP!

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

Yep!
It certainly is never ending with equipment!

I'm happy to have been with the same chain for 3 years now. Every December I play 'beat-the-chain' for a month, and so far so good. After a decade of searching, it's a nice feeling. Did change monitoring last year ... arguably a "bigger" move, but not hard if done right.

Sorry .... back to the topic ...

[sabian]

Hey guys, you make me feel sane again!
Only 2x more 823s, oh, and the mic pres for Pullett make up gain...
509 monoblocks have settled in nicely.
I love Tim... and his driving (for those who know him).
ssssshhhhhh it's dear enough as it is...

[Table Of Tone]

I spend a lot of time tinkering and seeing what I can get out of the stuff I've already got.
Back in Jan I made up a bunch of "analysis plus" hollow oval cables for the descrete stuff.

Had to modify the cable just to get the plugs on!

Sounded pretty much the same, maybe a little more air on the top end.

Yesterday I knocked up a pair of un-balanced hollow ovals and bypassed the transformers on the manley.

I'm never gonna look back!
Best sound I've ever had out of it!

[sabian]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

I spend a lot of time tinkering and seeing what I can get out of the stuff I've already got.
Back in Jan I made up a bunch of "analysis plus" hollow oval cables for the descrete stuff.

Had to modify the cable just to get the plugs on!

Sounded pretty much the same, maybe a little more air on the top end.

Yesterday I knocked up a pair of un-balanced hollow ovals and bypassed the transformers on the manley.

I'm never gonna look back!
Best sound I've ever had out of it!

Hey, believe it or not I'm all ears when it comes to cables! Care to share what exactly you're doing? I've done a lot of that kind of thing here.... Maybe bypass the power on/off switches while you're at it... Not to hijack Matt's thread - PM me?
Cheers

[finetuner]

Originally Posted by Table Of Tone

... and bypassed the transformers on the manley...

Amen brother.
If only more analog equipment had this possibility...

[dave-G]

Hollow .... oval ... ?

Oh, dear.

Is there something like Godwin's law to describe when an audio thread turns into a cable thread? <g>

-dave

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by dave-G

Hollow .... oval ... ?

Oh, dear.

Is there something like Godwin's law to describe when an audio thread turns into a cable thread? <g>

-dave

Yeah OK!
Sorry for straying from the topic.

My point is, when looking at EQ's, transformers can really be an issue!

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by finetuner

Amen brother.
If only more analog equipment had this possibility...

Yep!
Good ole Manley!

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by lucey

I'm happy to have been with the same chain for 3 years now. Every December I play 'beat-the-chain' for a month, and so far so good. After a decade of searching, it's a nice feeling.

I'm with Brian here -
I think there's TONS of advantages in a mastering rig, once you find processors that cover all your needs and that work to your satisfaction, to sticking with a set of processors for a very long time - and not changing these even if someone comes along with something that is "better". You learn the ins and outs of them and what particular tasks they excel at - to the point where you get a lot more out of them than "better" stuff that you're not as familiar with.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[lucey]

But to be fair Steve, I went through almost everything to find my chain. I'd be a terrible hypocrite to dissuade those still looking for their bliss.

And having made this post, I'll likely need something next week!

[OurDarkness]

Bypassing the transformers in the Massive, is just using the TRS instead of the XLR outputs, right?

[sabian]

Originally Posted by lucey

But to be fair Steve, I went through almost everything to find my chain. I'd be a terrible hypocrite to dissuade those still looking for their bliss.

And having made this post, I'll likely need something next week!

How true, both of the above posts.... One just needs to be aware of when and where is there an improvement to be made and when it's pure "slutiness" behind the change of gear. I must admit that there is a dose of inspiration that comes with (some) new boxes which should not be under estimated either. There is always room for improvement on all levels but it takes experience to know what those improvements might be and how we might achieve them. Testing gear is also a skill, establishing what exactly it will do for you in your chain, what is + and -. It's very easy to be flattered by a "new" sound, such as transients popping out of the speakers or forward punch / tightness (C2 anyone?) that actually might have loss of 3D, fullness in the mids etc as side effects. On top of that the hype that some of the gear is surrounded with. It is NOT easy to find your "dream chain" , they don't sell them in shops. We are talking flavours here most of the time and it is a very individual and personal thing after all. Like finding "your" sound on any instrument. It does take a lot of time and elaborate testing as well as browsing the slutz here which can definitely help to narrow down the options. But ultimately it's you and your sound and each of us should know to what extend what comes out of the speakers matches what's in our heads - and when the search is over ( or nearly over ....).
Back to Matt and this thread - one of the first things I asked (I think) was " what does he feel he is missing " in the current setup. That might not be a bad starting point for any new purchase.

[Roc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by sabian

Hey guys, you make me feel sane again!
Only 2x more 823s, oh, and the mic pres for Pullett make up gain...
509 monoblocks have settled in nicely.
I love Tim... and his driving (for those who know him).
ssssshhhhhh it's dear enough as it is...

WOW, that's incredible.

[sabian]

Originally Posted by dave-G

Hollow .... oval ... ?

Oh, dear.

Is there something like Godwin's law to describe when an audio thread turns into a cable thread? <g>

-dave

Cables are very much part of audio, at least in my place.
Too often not receiving the attention they deserve. Voodoo or not? Who decides?
Another "off topic" post, sorry Matt.... It might just keep the thread alive until your Buzz baby turns up...

[the unik]

Originally Posted by OurDarkness

Bypassing the transformers in the Massive, is just using the TRS instead of the XLR outputs, right?

I'm very interest for that answer too..

[finetuner]

Originally Posted by OurDarkness

Bypassing the transformers in the Massive, is just using the TRS instead of the XLR outputs, right?

I can't tell for sure by experience but that's what i understand from the manual.
(Unfortunately i read that after returning the unit from a test drive..)

The same (disable trannies by using unbalanced in/outputs) applies to Manley's Enhanced Pultec.

On the MiniMassive they made it easier with a switch on the rear. You can hear instantly what transformers do to the sound.

After finding this out, i'm eager to re-valuate Manley's tube gear some day ... unbalanced that is.

[Table Of Tone]

Still run a balanced pair of connections to the inputs of Manley tube gear but run a pair of unbalanced outputs, through very short and serious cables.

I then join pin 1 and 3 at the ZLR's going to the next piece of gear.
This may vary, depending on what the next piece of gear actually is.

I normally use an MLA-2 after the mass pass and my noise floor is actually quieter running the mass pass this way!

Doing this get's me more definition all round along with more punch at and below 100Hz.

[Table Of Tone]

You also need to look at the circuit diagram for the actual piece of Manley gear you are using to find out where in the circuit the transformers are.

In a mass pass they are on the output but I can't speak for the other stuff like the vari mu etc!

[William Bowden]

From the Massive Passive manual:

5) PHONE JACK INPUT. (Channel One or Left) Accepts balanced or unbalanced sources. Factory set-up for +4dBu pro levels. There
are some DIP switches internally that can change this to -10dBv semi-pro or hi-fi levels. The pin out is as follows: Tip = Positive = Hot,
Ring = Negative = Low or ground, Sleeve = Circuit Ground. If you use TRS plugs be sure that the ring is connected to the negative or ground
and not "open". Input impedance is 20K ohms. See page 16 & 17 for the DIP Switch details.
6) XLR JACK INPUT. (Channel One or Left) Accepts balanced or unbalanced sources. Only for +4dBu pro levels. The DIP switches
have no effect on the XLRs. The pin out is as follows: PIN 2 = Positive = Hot, PIN 3 = Negative = Low or ground, PIN 1 = Chassis Ground.
Be sure that the PIN 3 is connected to the negative or ground and not "open" or a 6dB loss or loss of signal will happen. In general, the XLRs
and +4 pro levels are slightly preferable over phone plugs especially if gold plated matching XLRs and good cable are used.
7) XLR JACK OUTPUT. (Channel One or Left) Transformer Balanced and Floating. Only for +4dBu pro levels. The DIP switches have
no effect on the XLRs. The pin out is as follows: PIN 2 = Positive = Hot, PIN 3 = Negative = Low or ground, PIN 1 = Chassis Ground.
Be sure that the PIN 3 is connected to the negative or ground and not "open" or a complete loss of signal will happen. Output impedance
is 150 ohms and output levels can reach +37 dBv (hot) which may distort the next piece in the chain.
8) PHONE JACK OUTPUT. (Channel One or Left) Unbalanced output only. Factory set-up for +4dBu pro levels. There are some DIP
switches internally that can change this to -10dBv semi-pro or hi-fi levels (with a phase reverse). The pin out is as follows: Tip = Positive

[top] Hot, Sleeve

Circuit Ground. If you use TRS plugs be sure that the ring is connected to the negative or ground and not "open". See page
16 & 17 for the DIP Switch details.


Hope this helps

The King

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by sabian

-PULLET - is a bargain and a real sleeper, if you have good pres. Sonically it really depends on the pres, after a lot of experimenting I ended up using TAB V376 most of the time. Boost has 3 q settings ( love the broad 6.3k boost), cuts seem pretty tight q (very usable 230, 330, 500... cuts). Never use the top shelving presets, too coarse...
Knobs a bit flimsy...

Knobs VERY flimsy.
I was at a friend's studio when it arrived. We hooked it up to test it and my friend ended up with a knob on his hand! We both were like WTF???


It is a cool piece of gear though.

Pupo

[sabian]

Originally Posted by jpupo74

... my friend ended up with a knob on his hand!
Pupo

Very tempting to comment but I'll resist...

Yeah, it's the only peace of kit I know you have to approach with love and tenderness BEFORE you actually fall in love with it... which you most likely WILL.
No accidents here so far, but then I DO love it.

I tried my Great River EQ unbalanced last night and could not believe the improvement -
it makes me wonder why everything must be balanced in pro audio where the entire hi-fi world runs unbalanced? Tim de P discouraged me from fitting transformers to my 509 monoblocks ...
It might be worth checking out those Manleys again....
Having said that, the Buzz unit is due here shortly so I'll give it a try too!

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by sabian

Very tempting to comment but I'll resist...

Yeah...but you already did.

My friend was very careful. I just think they should use more sturdy knobs.
It might sound funny, but this was the reason I didn't get one since I loved it for drums.

Cheers,
Pupo

[sabian]

Originally Posted by jpupo74

Yeah...but you already did.

My friend was very careful. I just think they should use more sturdy knobs.
It might sound funny, but this was the reason I didn't get one since I loved it for drums.

Cheers,
Pupo

".. my friend ended up with a knob on his hand!"
I had a different kind of comment in mind for this, forget it.....

Absolutely agree, the knobs are totally sub-standard for the piece of kit it is. I suppose one could fit better ones quite easily... as opposed to finding another eq like this but with better knobs for the money, which is definitely impossible.
Still, it does work. In fact I'm thinking of getting 2 more bands of great passive eq ( ie another one) for my mastering chain.

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by sabian

".. my friend ended up with a knob on his hand!"
I had a different kind of comment in mind for this, forget it.....

Absolutely agree, the knobs are totally sub-standard for the piece of kit it is. I suppose one could fit better ones quite easily... as opposed to finding another eq like this but with better knobs for the money, which is definitely impossible.
Still, it does work. In fact I'm thinking of getting 2 more bands of great passive eq ( ie another one) for my mastering chain.

Me Bad English my friend. I just don't get half of the posts here.


Are the knobs on the Phoenix the same?
I was introduced to unit a while ago, and I thought it was amazing but I didn't play around with it.

I also thought it sounded amazing, as the Pullet.

Cheers,
Pupo

[sabian]

Originally Posted by jpupo74

Are the knobs on the Phoenix the same?
I was introduced to unit a while ago, and I thought it was amazing but I didn't play around with it.

I also thought it sounded amazing, as the Pullet.

Cheers,
Pupo

From memory no, they're not the same. A picky friend of mine has got one and I would surely know if they were the same .... I don't think he is extremely light handed either. He did have some issues though, with valves I think .... Loves the thing but keeps meaning to bring it around and put it against EAR 660s. I tell him to save up first...

[syra]

Originally Posted by sabian

From memory no, they're not the same. A picky friend of mine has got one and I would surely know if they were the same .... I don't think he is extremely light handed either. He did have some issues though, with valves I think .... Loves the thing but keeps meaning to bring it around and put it against EAR 660s. I tell him to save up first...

I used to own a Phoenix. Great Comp. If he's a good friend of yours do NOT let him compare it to the EAR660's. Ignorance is bliss.

[sabian]

Originally Posted by syra

I used to own a Phoenix. Great Comp. If he's a good friend of yours do NOT let him compare it to the EAR660's. Ignorance is bliss.

Yup. He already bought my 825 and Passeq but those 660s are going with me to heaven or hell... and 822s...and 509s...

[Zeljko]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

+2
must have second 660 ASAP!

Hey RB, how would you describe 660 vs Retro 176?



Very curious...

[sabian]

Bok Zeljko!
Nice kit collection you have, didn't know that kind of "quality awareness" existed in Croatia, but then I'm mostly there on holidays ... and Zagreb in passing.
Don't know Retro 176 - something I should check out? Tell us more... RoundBadge?
Feel free to PM me re EAR or whatever.
Back to the topic, I should be getting in the Mini Massive and the Gyraf (by a very kind fellow slutz member) to try soon, will report back. The Buzz unit has been delayed, hmmmm