That old limiting/volume on mixdown question

[pyelagin]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to postproduction (would not call it mastering) and I'm trying to finalize a track and work on my understanding of what I'm doing wrong...

So I got my reference track inported on a diffrent audio track and I'm trying to get the track I'm working on as close as possible to the refference... First of all for some reason the wave of refference track is cliping out over 0 so badly that it looks like a wall rather than a wave form but... it does not distort and sounds quite amazing... Now my track is sort of twice lower in volume and I can not get it any louder otherwise every time it clips it sounds horrible... I've EQed it by taking averything off below 30 and above 16k... compressed it at 2:1 with sort of short attack and long release using Waves API and than using the Waves Ultramax to raise the volume a bit... Here is the link to high res mp3:

http://www.solarstatic.com/Decompression_master_1.mp3

So I'm trying to figure out what is my main problem... Is it the mix down, EQing or general luck of experience or knowlege? If anyone can give me any pointers/advice what to look for it would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks,
Peter

PS I'm using Qubase 4 as mastering inviroment

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by pyelagin

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to postproduction (would not call it mastering) and I'm trying to finalize a track and work on my understanding of what I'm doing wrong...

So I got my reference track inported on a diffrent audio track and I'm trying to get the track I'm working on as close as possible to the refference... First of all for some reason the wave of refference track is cliping out over 0 so badly that it looks like a wall rather than a wave form but... it does not distort and sounds quite amazing... Now my track is sort of twice lower in volume and I can not get it any louder otherwise every time it clips it sounds horrible... I've EQed it by taking averything off below 30 and above 16k... compressed it at 2:1 with sort of short attack and long release using Waves API and than using the Waves Ultramax to raise the volume a bit... Here is the link to high res mp3:

http://www.solarstatic.com/Decompression_master_1.mp3

So I'm trying to figure out what is my main problem... Is it the mix down, EQing or general luck of experience or knowlege? If anyone can give me any pointers/advice what to look for it would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks,
Peter

PS I'm using Qubase 4 as mastering inviroment

What is that reference track? Some sort of mastered CD that you are trying to match? First of all, it sounds like that reference track is probably highly clipped, distorted and too hot for its own good. What does its RMS level measure? How loud is it at a known (calibrated) monitor position? Do you really want to try to match its level and furthermore, don't forget that the mix you are working with is unique and its potential may not be able to allow you to match the reference---for many reasons.

[pyelagin]

So how is it possible that peaking wave does not clip? Are there tools that deal with cliping of that nature to reduce it to sertain degree? Is any level of cliping is acceptable in digital mastering? How do professionaly mastered traks end up being so cliped but do not distort?

[pyelagin]

I do not know RMS level but I'll find out by the end of the day... The reference track is (if I look at my meter on the board) peaks above -8 on at certain loudness level and mine ends up at a bit below -12 ... And like I said if I try to limit it more it start to clip... But the strange thing that I do not hear cliping on my studio monitors... I only hear it on the club system and it's pretty bad...

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by pyelagin

So how is it possible that peaking wave does not clip? Are there tools that deal with cliping of that nature to reduce it to sertain degree? Is any level of cliping is acceptable in digital mastering? How do professionaly mastered traks end up being so cliped but do not distort?

If I understand you correctly, are you concerned about clipping or about distortion? One can clip occasionally and that doesn't always mean a bad sound. If you don't want any clips on your meters, apply a brickwall limiter.

regards,

[pyelagin]

So by applying break wall limiter I can avoid cliping by pushing wave way out of 0? What is a good breakwall limiter out there in terms of VSTs?

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by pyelagin

So by applying break wall limiter I can avoid cliping by pushing wave way out of 0? What is a good breakwall limiter out there in terms of VSTs?

All high peaks will stop dead at -0dBFS, but I would set the ceiling up at -0.1dBFS - if you asked me. As for VST limiters, check this link out

Good luck!

[pyelagin]

I'm usilng Waves L1 set to -0.3 but it still clips...

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by pyelagin

I'm usilng Waves L1 set to -0.3 but it still clips...

It can't if it's inserted at the master buss and/or is the last process in your chain.

EDIT: Your ceiling is what indicates the level a peak stops.

[pyelagin]

When I realized there was cliping going on I had the PAZ frequency analizer on the master buss as the last plug in inserted... Can it be that it was doing something strange to the signal?

But still I had the red clip indicator going up in few spots in the track on the master buss (you mean main main out)... is it possible there is something wrong with the L1?

Thanks for the link... I'm going to check out few of the plugins...

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by pyelagin

When I realized there was cliping going on I had the PAZ frequency analizer on the master buss as the last plug in inserted... Can it be that it was doing something strange to the signal?

But still I had the red clip indicator going up in few spots in the track on the master buss (you mean main main out)... is it possible there is something wrong with the L1?

Thanks for the link... I'm going to check out few of the plugins...

Make sure it goes at "the main out" before the PAZ analyzer is OK. Also, try not to leave the ceiling at -0dB (the default), bring it down to -0.5dB. Even at -0dB the L1 may let a few peaks to clip that's why you should give it a bit more room before the "0 limit". The L1 is all you need.

Take care.