EQ make up Gain

[Waltz Mastering]

The Focusrite Blue 315 Mastering EQ has input and output controls.
I used one for a couple years. Those features came in quite handy as you described.

TW

[inlinenl]

Hi Waltz,

yes that's a nice option on an EQ, but is there no one out there with some custom solution made out-there ??????????
next to their prism/millennia's/sontecs/manleys/crane/fairmann's/avalons/api's ....

it;'s all about getting the dB's from start to finish ... no simple gain-boxes made ??? .. tubebased .. non-tube based ..

could some DIY guy chime in ....

[Adam Dempsey]

Console? Great to have full, pristine, stepped input & output control to & from the whole analogue path. We couldn't work without it.

[inlinenl]

thanks adam, the croockwood cannot do that ...
can your console add gain after an analog piece driving the next ???
I just want to add un-colored ( or colored ) gain ( 1-10 dB ) straight after the analog EQ's or just before the next analog compressor

[Adam Dempsey]

I optimise gain structure from the get go, often bypassing the relevant gain stage. Obviously, a really good line amp would be a solution, unless using something like the tube stage of the Massive Passive, or colour of the Chandler LTD2's.

[livingstone]

Hi Wim,

a friend of mine was asked by Masterdisk Europe to build them an output gain stage for their console as they had his HVC comp in demo and really liked the sound.
:: AI Electronik ::

perhaps he could build one for you,
the gain principle is hybrid half of the gain is given by a tube the other half by a hi end IC,

i haven't tested his comp in the studio yet but his HVP mic pre based on this principle really impressed me.
an other solution would be to use a pair of telefunken v376b mic/line amp, very transparent ss ones, very very low noise.

[inlinenl]

Hi frederic,

okay .. now it get's more clear, thanks ... so adding some line driver could be an option like the telefunken v376b ...
I'm interested in hearing any possibilities or solutions by our fellow mastering forum members also ...

[jdg]

i use the LTD-2s as gain stage more then i use them for compressing.

that said, u could just get a pre-amp that can handle line levels, call it a day.

L/R matching might be a pain with pots tho.

or try: API 512 cranked -> stereo stepped attenuator -> rest of chain

some thoughts

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by inlinenl

thanks adam, the croockwood cannot do that ...
can your console add gain after an analog piece driving the next ???
I just want to add un-colored ( or colored ) gain ( 1-10 dB ) straight after the analog EQ's or just before the next analog compressor

I built a pair of THAT drivers with a calibrated trimmer for that "calibrated gain" in my analog chain. VERY transparent. Leaves you the option of doing your color elsewhere in the chain.

BK

[Cellotron]

Dunno - the way I have my gain structured for my analog process chain I almost never have the need for makeup gain, even when doing major cuts - I just open the attenuator on my Mytek ADC a little more when I need to. Makes it easy to set levels coming into the DAW to exactly where I want it to be. Also if your DAW app does it's math properly and your capturing at 24bit another place it's very easy to get a good bit of "transparent" gain is with a digital stage as well.

For "colored" gain got to say I really like the sound of the output gain stage (which can be put into place without having to engage the compressor) of my Focusrite Blue 330 mk1 comp (with transformer balanced i/o) as it gives a nice subtle extra density and saturation as you push it - although admittedly it is a bit noisier than I'd prefer (thinking of seeing whether a mod could make this perform better).

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[inlinenl]

just some more info on why ...

when mastering only analoge with my prism-mea-2 and nseq-2 FF .... and NOT using first the WEISS ... I found the level after the EQ's a bit to low to drive my manley - vari-mu as only compressor.

I did not want to put the smart c2 in front only for gain .. it just gave to much sonic footprint on that track .. adding the tubetech in front was an option , i did that with a second version ..

that's why I thought about some other gain-staging option ..

thanks for you replys

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by inlinenl

just some more info on why ...

when mastering only analoge with my prism-mea-2 and nseq-2 FF .... and NOT using first the WEISS ... I found the level after the EQ's a bit to low to drive my manley - vari-mu as only compressor.

I did not want to put the smart c2 in front only for gain .. it just gave to much sonic footprint on that track .. adding the tubetech in front was an option , i did that with a second version ..

that's why I thought about some other gain-staging option ..

thanks for you replys

In these cases maybe can you simply increase the level being sent by the tape deck? should be easy to do - or does doing this drive the eq's too hard?. Maybe put the eq's in line after the comp in this case. Also - is the ouput of your modded NSEQ-2 balanced? If not maybe just put this one after the Manley so you don't see as much of a level drop prior to the Manley.

fwiw - when I receive tapes these days most folks are mixing to them at pretty hot levels - so I usually have to calibrate tones to playback at less than 0dBVU so I don't overload my eq's and comps - rather than visa versa. All the analog comps I have allow a fairly wide range for setting their threshold so it's extremely rare that I don't have enough signal to actually be able to push into gain reduction if I want this.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[inlinenl]

Thanks Steve,

well it was this specific track/production ( digital-source ) I wanted to do minimal/analoge master only ( EQ's-MEA-2 en NSEQ-FF ) -> ( COMP-VARI-MU) -> ( LIMITER-WEISS-DS1MKII )

it was still a non compressed aqoustic track with a very low-RMS and peaks around -01.00 dB .. which had some EQ problems ...

the EQ corrected trcak was just very low in volume I missed some EQ make -up gain to drive decently the VARI-MU ...

I did the track anyway , but I felt needing some make-up gain ... and did not want to limit more then just the slight peaks ...

I know there are some options now ... would be nice to have one big-control DIY solution to drive the volume up ...

[JIRI PASKA]

Originally Posted by inlinenl

I would find it interesting how you handle to much gain loss if you EQ a lot of dB out off a track ..

what's your solution/thoughts ...

Thermionic Culture Culture Vulture MV

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by inlinenl

thanks adam, the croockwood cannot do that ...
can your console add gain after an analog piece driving the next ???
I just want to add un-colored ( or colored ) gain ( 1-10 dB ) straight after the analog EQ's or just before the next analog compressor

Hi wim

Interesting...our Crookwood can. It is an extra card though and I never use it, so I ended up bypassing the card altogether.

Are you saying the level actually drops going into the vari-mu? That shouldn't be the case, unless there is an impedance or signal level mis match. Does your NSEQ have balanced outputs at +4dBu? Or is it unbalanced?

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by Ben F

Does your NSEQ have balanced outputs at +4dBu? Or is it unbalanced?

I remember when I had the (stock unbalanced) NSEQ2 I had some balancing and impedance weirdness in some chain combinations. Anyway, I think if the Vari-Mu has too little gain, then there must something wrong with the interfacing there.

[inlinenl]

all okay overhere guys ...

all is clear now .. I just ment because off the design off the MEA-2 which has no make-up gain ... and if you cut some serious dB ... when bypassing by using the buttons on the MEA-2 it just hard to "judge" sonicly because off the volume diff ... when pushing it in again ...
it's a great combo the MEA-2 and NSEQ2-FF .. I really get to know the strong points on the MEA-2 and NSEQ-2 .. really happy with that ..

by the way ... having lot's of fun with the anamod ATS-1 ...

also remember the NSEQ-2 with the FF mod has the ability to enable/disable the transformers ... making it a unbalanced/balanced unit ... sometimes this is audible if you change the sequence on the croockwood ...

Wim

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by jdg

i use the LTD-2s as gain stage more then i use them for compressing.

that said, u could just get a pre-amp that can handle line levels, call it a day.

L/R matching might be a pain with pots tho.

or try: API 512 cranked -> stereo stepped attenuator -> rest of chain

some thoughts

I use my MLA-2 pretty much in that way too!

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by inlinenl

also remember the NSEQ-2 with the FF mod has the ability to enable/disable the transformers ... making it a unbalanced/balanced unit ... sometimes this is audible if you change the sequence on the croockwood ...

It has transformers?


DC

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by dcollins

It has transformers?


DC

The NSEQ never had transformers. The most popular implementation was unbalanced in and out on XLRs. I believe Millennia had an active-balanced input version as well. The Forssell mod is unbalanced in and out, I don't think he made a balanced version.

[jdg]

the FF mod adds bal/unbal inputs from the "tube/ss" button.
it balances it electronically.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by jdg

the FF mod adds bal/unbal inputs from the "tube/ss" button.
it balances it electronically.

Interesting. That's not the mod Fred did to mine, so there must be more than one flavor of mod.

BK

[jdg]

maybe you got an early revision of it?
NSEQ-F Upgrade PCB For the NSEQ-2TM Equalizer

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by jdg

maybe you got an early revision of it?
NSEQ-F Upgrade PCB For the NSEQ-2TM Equalizer

More likely I got a custom job. Fred did some other mods at the same time at my request.

BK

I think make up gain defeats the whole idea of equalisating the given audio.

If it has to be done to make the next thing in line sing better, I wouldn't be sure if the next thing could be mastered with. Or the former.


Best Regards
Patrik

[inlinenl]

okay you guys caught me with my pants down , you see I'm no tech at all ...
I was referring to this on the FF mod .... ( form the Forsell website )
Balanced input standard (instead of optional).
Input mode can be switched between balanced or single-ended from front panel.

I thought it was by-passing some input transformers ????
thanks , I don't understand to much tech, maybe some day ... but the NSEQ-2-FF sounds fantastic ..